Current Sir Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton MBE

A place to put all the posts from all the other threads primarily but love him or hate him, and even for the indifferent amongst us this is the place to discuss the marmite that is Lewis Hamilton, to learn a thing or two about his rise, talk about those controversial, genius or mad moments and something that i am bemused by, the recent articles that suggest something quite different to my perception of what's going on. Any experiences of meeting LH?

Brundle had to write a Lewis Hamilton article recently and in my tweets (which were probably ignored) I asked him to talk about LH the driver not LH the personality. It seems that you can't have one without the other.

So as a starter for ten, here is a fairly recent LH article. Posts should not be limited to this link but it can get some discussion going. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13755883.stm

The only banned topic as it is clearly ridiculous involves these four things "Glock" "2008" "Brazil" "conspiracy"
 
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Cookinflatsix said:
The year swerving Irvine beat MS due to Ms having a broken leg, I don't think anyone would say MS regressed that year
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I don't see how that is comparable to the current situation, MS was out for nearly half of the season and only finished 30 points behind his team-mate, and when he cameback he was comfortably faster than Irvine.

The same can't be said about Hamilton...
 
I am not saying there is nobbling going on or sabotage

TBYs original questionto which I responded with my theory, was why Lewis would be an afterthought within the team

My idea is that he and Jenson are different personalities as is Whitmarsh. Every team principal will have a favourite and its likely that Lewis is no longer the favourite son of the team.

This is maybe one of the factors along with punitive stewards that has cumulatively led to his slump.

Its not about sabotage or nobbling, I challenge anyone to provide proof of me saying that, its more like Lewis left out for an extra lap on shot tyres to accommodate the driver carrying the principals vision for the team. I then provided speculations n the reason that the older more humble and manageable Jenson might be the principals idea of the future for his team. I also tied Lewis' driver type to Ron Dennis and his previous hires.

However I think many believe that any such speculation about team dynamic must be tin foil hatism, surprising considering the history of F1 team dynamics. In that context Lewis being an afterthought for the team on Sundays is a valid point.

Massa is used as a water carrier by his team, not saying the same for Lewis but its not totally ridiculous to speculate that Whitmarsh would prefer Jenson to win as he is part of his vision for the MW Mclaren age, which has come after the RD age.

F1 history is littered with examples of teams preferring one driver to win the WC over another, its not ridiculous to think this might happen again
 
Thats a really well thought through idea Cook and I see its logic and its merits and all the possibilities that could be true and I respect you obviously believe in it passionatly however as you are not an insider in the Mclaren camp, nor personel friend of Martin, Lewis or Jenson it remains very hig speculation. The only information you have to base this theory on is information presented to you via the media and therefore influenced by another individual before you get to see it. When dealing with sporting facts this isn't usually a problem but your talking about people's personalities here. For all I know Lewis Hamilton is the nicest bloke in the world, who cries at films like "You've Got Mail" and saves hedgehogs and nurses them whilst Jenson Button will only watch films like 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre', beats up his wife and complains about Britian not being British anymore but I have no idea having not met them and can only speculater the same as you can. So you idea may very well be true but its all based on specualtion and not facts.

I deal in facts. The season started with Lewis having the advantage in quali and a less of an advantage in the race. The season is coming to and end with Jenson and Lewis being just about on a par in quali and Button having an advantage in the race. Which leads me to the conclusion that Lewis season not so good, Jenson season good.

Nice theory though.
 
In my opinion Lewis will need to beat Jenson by more than 12 or 15 points in the WDC standings for it to be considered an "even" Championship, assuming no more mechanical/McLaren-related DNFs

Why?

2 DNFs mid season which were not Button's fault.

Imagine the uproar had it been Hamilton's MP4-26 which had had those 2 retirements?

Lewis has been given a bullet-proof car this year so no one can say he got the worse end of the stick from that perspective.
 
RasputinLives said:
I deal in facts. The season started with Lewis having the advantage in quali and a less of an advantage in the race. The season is coming to and end with Jenson and Lewis being just about on a par in quali and Button having an advantage in the race. Which leads me to the conclusion that Lewis season not so good, Jenson season good.

Nice theory though.
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Facts are all very well. If we all sat back and dealt in facts its likely that the Earth would still be flat and that roundness would still be a conspiracy theory that heretics got burnt at the stake for speculating upon.

For me, the human brain with its million processors arranged in parallel, makes it almost compulsory to look beyond 'facts' and read between the lines, speculate, inquire, not accept the status quo. Not believe what I read, or hear from the politicians if my feeling is that it don't 'feel' right. That 'feel' comes from the brain arrangement I mentioned earlier.

Now my occupation actually involves thinking like this all day so I am maybe quick to see patterns behind what is normal for most. Anyway its better for a forum if some people are willing to risk ridicule by looking beyond facts that can always turn out to be misleading.

Indeed the advantage of the internet is that we no longer have to depend on a few journalists to provide us with a fascimile of the truth, we can review the info ourselves, listen to the words of the players, intuit our own truths, form our own opinions then present our theories not to a few mates down the pub, but to a few more, who can listen, not listen etc etc
Once we start having to think or opine in a way thats predefined, palatable or acceptable to a certain ideal (going with the party line), we risk turning the internet into an electronic version of the old Murdoch style newspaper world
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
In my opinion Lewis will need to beat Jenson by more than 12 or 15 points in the WDC standings for it to be considered an "even" Championship, assuming no more mechanical/McLaren-related DNFs

Why?

2 DNFs mid season which were not Button's fault.
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Canada was a dnf for Lewis that was not his fault. And according to the BBC the Kobayashi DNF was also not his fault

Maybe we could take into consideration the race Lewis drove extra carefully jumping out of the way to avoid all contact.
 
CF6,

I'm talking about mechanical DNFs and the like (like a wheel not being put on properly).

What happens on the track between two drivers has nothing to do with the reliability of the equipment McLaren provided Lewis with.

By and large, Lewis has had the type of car and service which allowed him to finish every race whereas Jenson has had the type of car and service which allowed him to finish two races less.

Everything else is down to the drivers.

Lewis could have avoided Canada eventhough it wasn't his fault entirely. The Kobash thing also had nothing to do with a McLaren issue. It was down to driver decisions.
 
Cookinflatsix said:
Canada was a dnf for Lewis that was not his fault. And according to the BBC the Kobayashi DNF was also not his fault

Maybe we could take into consideration the race Lewis drove extra carefully jumping out of the way to avoid all contact.
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...
Well, according to DC, the Kobayashi DNF may not have been his fault - however, you still need to ask what LH expected Kobayashi to do in that case! Certainly, Hamilton cannot be completely free from blame for his Spa retirement (Even if Kobayashi also has some share of the blame!)
 
Ray,

Its heading for a grey area. How about the points lost by longer pitstops from the team, how about not getting a q3 run/ or wrong downforce settings, wrong tyre choice, how about the team not bringing him in to pit at the right time, leading ultimately to dropped points

If you say a driver dnfs from 6th position due to team error, what say you about a driver who dropps from 1st to 3rd because of team error?
 
Cookinflatsix said:
Facts are all very well. If we all sat back and dealt in facts its likely that the Earth would still be flat and that roundness would still be a conspiracy theory that heretics got burnt at the stake for speculating upon.

For me, the human brain with its million processors arranged in parallel, makes it almost compulsory to look beyond 'facts' and read between the lines, speculate, inquire, not accept the status quo. Not believe what I read, or hear from the politicians if my feeling is that it don't 'feel' right. That 'feel' comes from the brain arrangement I mentioned earlier.

Now my occupation actually involves thinking like this all day so I am maybe quick to see patterns behind what is normal for most. Anyway its better for a forum if some people are willing to risk ridicule by looking beyond facts that can always turn out to be misleading.

Indeed the advantage of the internet is that we no longer have to depend on a few journalists to provide us with a fascimile of the truth, we can review the info ourselves, listen to the words of the players, intuit our own truths, form our own opinions then present our theories not to a few mates down the pub, but to a few more, who can listen, not listen etc etc
Once we start having to think or opine in a way thats predefined, palatable or acceptable to a certain ideal (going with the party line), we risk turning the internet into an electronic version of the old Murdoch style newspaper world
Click to expand

Reading between the lines is very human yes and I agree with you on this point but if people were allowed to read between the lines without backing it up with facts then actually we'd probably all still believe the sun went round the earth as the earth is the centre of the universe and we'd have a very very poor law system - which happens to be where I work for a living. If I were to state a case against a business because I'd 'read between the lines and it was obvious' without actually producing any evidence I would be laughed out of the office.

Your theory isn't based on reading between the lines your theory is based in you deciding what people's personalities are like. People you have never met. So like I said you could quite possibley be right but you could also quite possibley be completely and utterly wrong.

Assuming sums add up without checking the figures is the height of human arrogance and I believe we live in and innocent until proven guilty society.

If you have a theory then thats great. If you can't prove it then it is just that. A theory.
 
Cookinflatsix said:
And if i wasn't allowed to express it without ridicule then the world would be a poorer place

Its ok not to agree with a theory or even to have your own alternative. I respect that and would never ridicule you for it.
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The world of science is governed by people putting their theories out there, and then the academic public examine them to see if there is sufficient evidence to back up the assertion. If there isn't then the theory either needs further research, or needs to be dropped completely.....
 
I hardly think scientific theory applies here.

Einstein's theory of special relativity is unproven, that doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

I suggest we move away from a pedantic discussion on what constitutes a theory.
 
Cookinflatsix said:
Ray,

Its heading for a grey area.
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Yes but CF6, i'm not talking about grey areas. I'm talking about black and white. The black and white of it is that McLaren provided the type of car and service to Hamilton which gave him the power to finish 2 extra races than Button.

Button had absoultely 0 control over Silverstone and Nurburgring.

Button's score is legitimately only out of 13 races because he had Zero control over the other 2; Hamilton's score is legitimately out of 15 races.
 
Brogan said:
I hardly think scientific theory applies here.

Einstein's theory of special relativity is unproven, that doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

I suggest we move away from a pedantic discussion on what constitutes a theory.
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No, but up until recently, it has been supported by sufficient evidence to be widely accepted as fact...

However, in the case of some of the theories regarding LH, there's often very little supporting evidence in any way.... Everything is just supposition, and all that ends up happening is that many opposing camps become dug in and bashing their heads against brick walls!
 
The Artist..... said:
However, in the case of some of the theories regarding LH, there's often very little supporting evidence in any way.... Everything is just supposition, and all that ends up happening is that many opposing camps become dug in and bashing their heads against brick walls!
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Quite.

Each side is as bad as the other.

My advice is to ignore the thread or ignore the posters in that case.

http://cliptheapex.com/account/ignored
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
Yes but CF6, i'm not talking about grey areas. I'm talking about black and white. The black and white of it is that McLaren provided the type of car and service to Hamilton which gave him the power to finish 2 extra races than Button.

Button had absoultely 0 control over Silverstone and Nurburgring.

Button's score is out of 13 races because he had Zero control over the other 2; Hamilton's score is out of 15 races.
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Lewis had absolutely 0 control over events (team errors) in races that dropped as many points as a dnf from 5th a few times
 
Cookinflatsix said:
And if i wasn't allowed to express it without ridicule then the world would be a poorer place
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and I've never ridiculed you on a personel level for having it Cook just presented my own conflicting theory. I hope you apply this riddicule rule to those that present a theory you don't agree with too.

If you do feel you're being riddiculed though you are in good company - Everyone from Newton to Einstein have been lauged at for theres.

Cookinflatsix said:
Guess we will just have to wait for the first edition of 'Mclaren - What really happened in those years' by Ron, Martin, lewis, Jenson, special prologue by Nicole
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I'm pre-ordering that on Amazon right now!
 

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