Current Sir Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton MBE

A place to put all the posts from all the other threads primarily but love him or hate him, and even for the indifferent amongst us this is the place to discuss the marmite that is Lewis Hamilton, to learn a thing or two about his rise, talk about those controversial, genius or mad moments and something that i am bemused by, the recent articles that suggest something quite different to my perception of what's going on. Any experiences of meeting LH?

Brundle had to write a Lewis Hamilton article recently and in my tweets (which were probably ignored) I asked him to talk about LH the driver not LH the personality. It seems that you can't have one without the other.

So as a starter for ten, here is a fairly recent LH article. Posts should not be limited to this link but it can get some discussion going. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13755883.stm

The only banned topic as it is clearly ridiculous involves these four things "Glock" "2008" "Brazil" "conspiracy"

 

[Incubus]

downforce ..Alonso has had to contend with is probably the least competitive car he's had in his career. Lets do the calculation again in two years time.

-----------------------------------------------------------

You do remember he started off on a European Minardi don't you?

 

[Kewee]

Incubus ..... Yes I do but I don't see what that has to do with what I said in my posting. The Artist..... also pointed out that Alonso had been in F1 longer than Hamilton which is very true but that also shows how difficult it is to compare drivers when they're competing in different teams. Sadly for Alonso he's had many years in uncompetitive cars, both Renaults and Ferraris. Hamilton has also had some uncompetitive cars but nothing like as many as Alonso. As I said I look forward to comparing their results at the end of 2016.

 

[Kewee]

The Artist..... Yes, in uncompetitive cars, Renaults and Ferraris unfortunately.

 

[Hamberg]

But Alonso's had the added benefit of team mates providing a tow, moving over or crashing so he could get some of those wins.

Contrary to Hamilton who has largely been in competition against that person in the equally competitive car.

 

[Kewee]

Hamberg .... Do you mean Kovalianen. Seriously though, I'm a huge Button fan, always have been, but Jenson was never going to match Hamilton's race pace consistently and the racer in Hamilton will always dominate Rosberg so I don't think the teammate argument favours one over the other.

 

[Hamberg]

2012?

They didn't help him though unlike Alonso's team mates, they still took wins and poles.

 

[Kewee]

There's little point in arguing who is the best Hamilton or Alonso, the last time they went head to head in the same car they finished the season on equal points, I'm looking forward to seeing who comes out on top during the next stage of their careers, providing McLaren/Honda put a decent car under Alonso.
Do you seriously believe Alonso's teammates helped him at Ferrari during the last five years, he earned almost all of Ferrari's constructors points single handedly.

 

[Hamberg]

The last time they went head to head Hamilton finished higher in the standings.

And yes and at Renault! How can you not believe that?!

Anyway I think you're getting hung up on something here, these are stats that show achievements, not stats to say Hamilton is now better than Alonso because....

The number of race wins/WDCs/poles at this point in time won't change. And they aren't meaningless.

At the end of the day they will be globally be remembered for WDCs.

 

[downforce]

Yeah as stated above, I did not say "Hamilton is better than Alonso" I said he has surpassed the achievements.

As Championships are the most important thing with wins being 2nd. then Hamiltons achievements currently surpass those of Alonso on countback (like 2007)

IF you say that his achievements are somewhat meaningless based on the season just gone (ie a dominant car) then I can say that Vettels 2011 and 2013 seasons are somewhat meaningless.

 

[Kewee]

Hamberg.... I'm not hung up on anything, I've always believed Alonso and Hamilton are the two best drivers in the sport but sadly they won't be able to go head to head until they are both in competitive cars. To suggest Hamilton is better than Alonso based on Hamilton gaining one more 2nd position in 2007 is clearly absurd. I've said this before and I'm sure anyone reading this that has competed in their chosen sport will understand. Alonso arrived at McLaren as the defending two time World Champion which placed him under immense pressure to perform, wins were expected, errors wouldn't have been forgiven, he had to drive within himself. Hamilton on the other hand was a hugely talented rookie and was able to throw the kitchen sink at every GP he started. He was talented enough to avoid errors, but had he made any they would have been forgiven due to it being his rookie year. It should be obvious what I'm saying, two drivers having to approach their racing in completely different ways, one able to take chances the other not being able to allow himself the slightest error, and that contributed enormously to their varying results. That is the psychology of sport and anyone that has competed, especially at a high level will understand what I'm saying.

 

[Brogan]

So an experienced driver who is a double world champion was under more pressure than the rookie?

Absurd!

As it stands, Hamilton's achievements in F1 are greater than those of Alonso.

sadly they won't be able to go head to head until they are both in competitive cars.

They already were.
Hamilton beat Alonso when they were in the same team in 2007.

As the official results clearly show: http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2007/

 

[The Artist.....]

And of course, in the time that both Alonso and Hamilton have been in F1, Hamilton has won 2 championships, Alonso none...

Oh, and in 2005/6 Alonso did have a car advantage... With his mass-damped Renault...

 

[teabagyokel]

Kewee - I truly believe Alonso's record considering the cars he's had is a magnificent one, but on the team-mate front you're wrong.

I think I'd take Button, Rosberg and Kovalainen over any combination of Marques, Yoong, Trulli, Villeneuve, Fisichella, Piquet, Grosjean, Massa and Raikkonen.

Unless I could have Gilles or Nelson Sr.

 

[downforce]

In fact Tarso Marques actually beat alonso in the WDC as teammates.

Sorry irrelevant stat, I believe Hamilton and Alonso to be the 2 best drivers on the grid. I just thought it worth noting that he had surpassed the win count of Alonso.

 

[teabagyokel]

downforce - No problem at all. Don't think anyone saw it coming so quickly when Alonso hit 32 in Barcelona.

Hamilton is 6 short of Point Vettel, 8 short of some very irritating hagiography, 18 down on Prost and just the 58 up to Schumacher.

 

[Incubus]

Never been a fan of comparing drivers from dibased fferent eras but if one insists on it then it probably would be more accurate to make a judgement on win percentage ratio.
And even that isn't totally relevant either, since drivers in the fifties could take over a team-mate's car when theirs hit mechanical trouble.

 

[teabagyokel]

And it's unfair to include Alonso's 2001 or Hill's 1992, for example.

 

[Kewee]

So an experienced driver who is a double world champion was under more pressure than the rookie?

Yes, in every possible way. It happens in high performance sport al over the world all the time, not just motorsport, It helps keep sport physiologists employed. Hopes are placed on rookies, not expectations, that comes later in their careers or at least after they've got their rookie year behind them. I'm absolutely certain Hamilton would say he feels a lot more pressure today than he did in his rookie year, the difference is he now knows how to cope with it.

 

[RasputinLives]

Yeah but another thing that happens in high performance sport all over the world is the 'shit just got real' scenario. I agree the pressure was off Hamilton for the first part of the season however by the time we get to the championship the reality of the situation will have hit him full on and the pressure would have been huge. It would have hit Fernando too but he'd have been there twice already and knew what to expect.

Every coin has two sides.

 

[Kewee]

RasputinLives ..... Your absolutely right Ras and your example showed in their results. The mistakes came for Hamilton at the seasons end and it cost him the title. Alonso on the other hand outscored Hamilton during the second half of the season when the pressure was on.
Another example of rookie performance when expectations aren't placed on them stands out in cricket. A rookie batsman is selected to play for his country and scores a maiden century on debut, then the expectations are placed on him and the experience he gathered on his debut count for nothing and a string of failures at the crease follow and he's dropped and spends the next season trying to earn his test cap again. You see this in cricket all the time.