Poll Sebastian Vettel's ever increasing circles

[F1Brits_90]

i think ive discussed before I cant find it, the grids of them 2 teams & contrast in qualifying pace. which left him for everything to do in the race. because there are some serious grid gaps. at times it was like max Verstappen taking lewis Hamilton to the closing stages of the finale last year. 6 top 3 of final 7 but Alonso lower than 7th in over half of final 7

Red Bull---------------------Ferrari
3rd & 7th - Singapore - 5th & 13th
1st & 2nd - Japan - 7th & 11th
1st & 2nd - Korea - 4th & 6th
1st & 2nd - India - 5th & 6th
2nd & 3rd - Abu Dhabi - 7th & 9th (pre exclusion)
1st & 3rd - USA - 7th & 9th
3rd & 4th - Brazil - 5th & 8th

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if anything at least this discussion has past the time in between china & baku. because otherwise nothing to talk about post shanghai

 

[RasputinLives]

I see what your saying but that stat kind of proves the Red Bull was not the all conquering dominant car that meant Vettel had it easy. It's a major talking point now if Lewis is not on front row of the grid. I still maintain Alonso was able to keep in the title race because Vettel had more than just him to worry about come race day.

2012 was a really good and close season. Button was on super form, Lewis was off form but had his moments, Kimi was pretty sharp, Grosjean was coming good and even Rosberg was up there. No quite as close as 2010 but a great season all the same. Far more entertaining that the last two years of F1.

 

[F1Brits_90]

2010 was a great championship battle but majority of terrible races if I remember my thought process

 

[Radical F1]

Do you think Ferrari mgmt is regretting/thinking whether they should have retained Raikonnen for much less money instead ?
Thoughts ?

 

[RasputinLives]

No. Not in the slightest. There is no way LeClerc was ready to lead the team as a number one driver and Kimi has shown he is not a team leader.

 

[F1Brits_90]

Do you think Ferrari mgmt is regretting/thinking whether they should have retained Raikonnen for much less money instead ?
Thoughts ?

no because on paper theyve got 2 great drivers. & Leclerc should push vettel on

 

[Angel]

I have to agree with the guys, Radical F1 I don't think Ferrari have anything to regret yet. Charles is doing a wonderful job for them so far and but for the engine issue would have delivered them a win already. They might regret it if the relationship between Seb and Charles goes downhill, warring team mates helps no one, except for their opponents I always reckon.

 

[Radical F1]

Just wondering whether Kimi would have given a better support for Charles to chase Hamilton while pestering Bottas.
By that, there will not be a no.1 Driver - just plain team work.
It may be clearer towards the end of the season....

 

[Il_leone]

Radical F1 Absolutely not because was paid wages that only a world champion should be paid if they were still a regular front runner ... Kimi clearly was not and really Ferrari should have gotten rid of him a long time ago. It seems that he is seen as part of Arrivabene's clique at Maranello and the results havent justified keeping him

Di Montezemolo got rid of Kimi because he thought in crisis situation Kimi did not show enough hard work and commitment to rally the team compared to Alonso . So what would ferrari think the second time Kimi was going to be any better ?

 

[Il_leone]

siffert_fan Nope just he has a much superior car to win races with if you are referring to Bottas. Whether he will be a Webber or a Button depends when he finishes his F1 career. Webber proved he is not quite in the same league as the others to be classed as world class

The first year of the power trains no one was able to touch Mercedes both Ferrari and Red Bull got it wrong ... I seem to remember Vettel calling the rules something you step on when he realised he was going to be nowhere near front challenger. Alonso and Ferrari were an absolute mess and gone back to their Italian ways which Fernando could gradually see was happening. He basically suffered the same fate as Prost did in the early 90's with Ferrari

Vettel you say has improved Ferrari - the law of diminishing returns with rule stability would allow this. If Vettel and Hamilton swapped cars then their roles would probably reflect the battles they had back in 2010-2012 and probably a lot closer given the Ferrari was suppose to be a superior car at times but did not get the results it suggests it should have achieved

 

[siffert_fan]

The law of diminishing returns you cite leaves out the massive restrictions on development enshrined in the current regulations. Were that not the case, McLaren and Williams would be getting closer rather than falling further back. And Alonso really worked miracles for McLaren, didn't he?

Supposed to be the superior car by whom? Cite sources, please.

 

[Radical F1]

Il_leone of course nobody is certain on this. Not you, me or anyone else. We are just speculating.
I just thought I see a better teamwork between Leclerc and Kimi - Again no No. 1 driver just plain teamwork as supposed to Leclerc VS Seb.I don't see them having a good teamwork down the road. They will lose to the Mercs badly again if they continue their battle for No. 1 driver...
No mention about Alonso on this please.

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

Radical F1
Di Montezemolo got rid of Kimi because he thought in crisis situation Kimi did not show enough hard work and commitment to rally the team compared to Alonso . So what would ferrari think the second time Kimi was going to be any better ?

Sorry - that stood out for me and you may be talking about earlier than last year, but di Montezemolo hasn't worked for Fiat/Ferrari since 2014.

 

[Titch]

I’ve been thinking.
I think Vettel just likes going round in circles.

 

[Il_leone]

siffert_fan What makes you believe the Mercedes was the superior car than Ferrari last season ?

 

[Izumi]

Sorry - that stood out for me and you may be talking about earlier than last year, but di Montezemolo hasn't worked for Fiat/Ferrari since 2014.

Kimi left Ferrari for first time end of 2009. All what Radical is saying is, first experience with Kimi should have been enough not to hire him second time.

I do not agree with my friend Radical. Kimi had truly bad results during his first tenure, however I do suspect that had a lot to do with design of the car which was designed primarily around Alonso. Kimi just could not get around characteristics of that vehicle. Kimi was a good driver in his days.

Kimi and Seb during his second tenure were in better alignment (match) over Kimi and Alonso in what they demand from the car. Differences were handled through individual setups, which was sufficient to level playing field. This harmony was not there in earlier times.

 

[RasputinLives]

Interesting fact. If you don't include this season (and your generous in 2009) then Kimi has been beaten by his team mate in 7 of his 16 seasons. That's a 43.75% failure rate. That's pretty high for someone so well thought of. The only long term team mates (i.e a full season against him) he didn't get beat by at least once we're Grosjean and Montoya (JP didn't manage full season against him really either.).

 

[F1Brits_90]

im unsure if kimi highly thought of. because he's very likeable & popular. but people normally say kimi is a great driver when be can be bothered

 

[vintly]

We're a bit off-topic here but I'll chime in about Kimi. The 'can't be bothered' tag is nonsense. It's applied to him when he gives his usual responses to the media after a bad race. It sounds like he can't be bothered, but he can't really be bothered with the media at any time. It's just after a good race he's slightly happier and credited with doing well and hence the 'can't be bothered tag' isn't applied.

Of course he's bothered and can be bothered. You don't get to be an F1 driver by not applying yourself. He just has not-so-good races from time to time because he's not always as good a driver as his peers. That's not because he can't be bothered, it's because he's not as good as them.

 

[Il_leone]

vintly It is how he projects himself , the problem is everyone is compared to how Schumacher did things and he was a workaholic trying to extract every little detail. Kimi is not that type of person but he seems to get the right people backing him at Ferrari

I will say Vettel thought he was in a comfort zone being undisputed No 1 at Ferrari but I think some of his spins is probably down to having trying to prove to himself and some at Ferrari that he is No 1 outright and make Kimi as a subservient No 2. Arrivabene did not really help Vettel one bit and was more interested in keeping his nose clean