Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[Kewee]

In most peoples eyes going by comments coming out of the various garages on pit lane, Alonso left Ferrari with his reputation enhanced. Considering his current salary at McLaren that's probably true. The next three seasons will answer most people questions regarding Alonso.

 

[Bill Boddy]

You missed out Alonso

But this is the Vettel thread, not Ferrari or Alonso.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Is it you would never know would you?

 

[Kewee]

I forgot to look at the title of the thread and was just responding to Il_leone and Andyoak.

 

[Bill Boddy]

When I saw that fellow having a shit in the middle of the road I thought that I would keep him company by doing the same, Your Honour.

 

[Kewee]

Didn't realise it was a hanging offence considering the season hasn't started yet.

 

[teabagyokel]

Bill Boddy - Seb?

 

[teabagyokel]

Malaysia is win number 40 for Vettel, just one behind Senna now in 4th place. He's now level with Rubens Barrichello on 68 podiums - that's level 7th. He's only a couple of hundred of laps lead down on Prost now, too.

 

[jez101]

He is a totally different driver when he has a sniff of the win. When the SC pitted today, it was like 2010-13 all over again.

I think last year will always be a stain on any claims to greatness though. I just can't reconcile what we saw in 2014 with anything either before or since.

 

[sushifiesta]

The comparison with Kimi will be interesting if/when he has a trouble free weekend. Indications in practice were that Kimi had the edge over Vettel this weekend, although you can't put all his troubles down to bad luck. He should still have got in to Q3 despite leaving the pits behind Ericsson, for example.

Also, it would be nice to see Vettel in a few proper battles at the front with similarly competitive cars. Although he won close championships, the small points differences in 2010 and 2012 didn't really correspond to a lot of on track battles with the other drivers fighting for the championship.

 

[jez101]

But it's not battling on-track that has won Vettel those 4 titles. It was qualifying well and then his ability to build a 2 second gap on lap 1 and then manage his tyres to the finish. He made a two-stop look easy today.

 

[RasputinLives]

Can we cross 'only won in a Newy designed car' off the trotted out list of why Vettel isn't a top driver now?

 

[cider_and_toast]

And unless they've got a cheeky EBD and flexy wing set up on that Ferrari, they can get crossed off as well.

 

[teabagyokel]

We can finally scotch "dry race, car disadvantage, no win" as well.

 

[RasputinLives]

Plus can only win from pole and can't overtake.

 

[Il_leone]

today's performance will help and not winning in the best car. I would eat humble pie gladly

That was an impressive win from an opportunistic moment that opened for him today

The move has rejuvenated him with the right reasons to prove people wrong

 

[siffert_fan]

I think last year will always be a stain on any claims to greatness though. I just can't reconcile what we saw in 2014 with anything either before or since.

So what does the fact that Button scored 15 more points than Hamilton over the three years they were teammates say about Hamilton's greatness?

 

[jez101]

The same. Both will struggle to be ranked alongside Schumacher, Prost and Senna when we are looking back in 20 years time.

 

[sushifiesta]

But it's not battling on-track that has won Vettel those 4 titles. It was qualifying well and then his ability to build a 2 second gap on lap 1 and then manage his tyres to the finish. He made a two-stop look easy today.

Yes, he's great at that, I'd just like to see him muscle his way to a win to show he can do that too. Like Hamilton holding off Rosberg in Bahrain last year, or him overtaking Vettel for the win in USA 2012. I can't really remember a Vettel victory like that. It's not necessarily a criticism, but that's the sort of situation I'd like to see Vetel come out on top in to help the memories of 2014 disappear completely.

 

[RasputinLives]

in Spain last year he went from starting in the pit lane to 4th in a car that was not the best in the field and was down on straight line speed at a track that is not known for its overtakes so you could say that shows muscle.

As for holding off - Monza in 2008 in a Toro Rosso with Lewis Hamilton bearing down on him required metal.