Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they :censored: fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

035336-pn-image-sport-sebastian-vettel.jpg
 
Click to expand
*rolls in and beeps his clown nose*

Hey hey!

Ok then I'll be straight.

The traction control idea is stupid and was only brought up by an ex manager craving some media attention based on something he heard at Singapore. But even if you suspend your disbelief at that you then have to factor in some conspiracy theory at Red Bull that they would only put it on one car.

Frankly I think the plot of Back To The Future is more plausable than this theory (as do you or there wouldn't be a winky face) and anyone who believes it is frankly looking for excuses to knock.a driver they don't like especially if they bring it back up again a mere couple of comments after the last debate on it ended.
 
Recap - http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?optio...mula-1-traction-control&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157

Ther eis nothing silly about the idea at all. It is an idea that has been subscribed to by many of F1's top pundits, technical bloggers and other professional informed observers. None of them have written any movies about flying time-travelling Delorean's. In contrast, the only denials come from Christian Horner and Sebastian Vettel.

Whether you like my opinion, one that is widely subscribed to and based on evidence, or not, please present a valid argument or simply say nothing. Ridiculing a legitimate opinion without any substance of debate does nothing to strengthen your counter argument. All I have taken from what you have said is that the reason you believe it to be silly is just because you do. Well, that is not enough to make me change my opinion so I'll stick with it.
 
You do realise that articke you posted just references what Mr Minardi(the ex manager I was talking about) says and does not quote anybody else as subscribing to the theory right?

Also I'm not attempting to change your opinion. That is impossible. I'm just saying you have absolutely no evidence. Not one shred. Nothing at all.
 
So you didn't read the article, then. The one that I linked to that mentions Mark Hughes, whether you value his opinions or not. There is also a video on the article that shows the different note of the engine between Vettel and Webber's cars that was observed at that particular race.

You only have to use the power of Google to find a load more. I could have linked to any one of over 100 articles discussing the same topic.

I am not saying it is fact. It is speculation and will never be anything more than that. But to mull the idea and give it credence is not ridiculous and does not deserve ridicule, unless by some inside knowledge you know that it is fact that such a system did not exist. I don't believe that you do.
 
RasputinLives said:
Because they were up against the best driver on the grid?
Click to expand

That, and because they're shit.

I don't get this bias stuff. I can't think of a Formula One team who have ever been biased against the quicker guy. They're all there to win - Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes etc.. If Red Bull attached their colours to the Vettel mast, its because it looks more likely that it'd sail to the title.

In 2010, Webber won 4 races and nearly beat Vettel to the title. Of course, Vettel had a cracked chassis in two of them, a first lap puncture in another, a ludicrous stop-go penalty costing a dominant victory in Hungary, to add to the dominant victories lost in Australia, Bahrain and Korea through no fault of his own.
Vettel also made poor mistakes in Belgium and Turkey - a TMC that saw Vettel eliminated and Webber on the podium.

In short, what I'm saying is that Vettel made amateurish mistakes, lost probably 100 points that were not his fault and was handicapped in all Webber's wins in 2010. And he still beat Webber!

That's all there is to it. Apples and apples (as one other thread has gone). Vettel is better than Webber. 2009. 2010. 2011. 2012. 2013.

Sorry if you got to the wrong end of the stick RasputinLives due to me having a pop at Flavio.
 
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That isn't what the article says at all. The article says Minardi says it and it was reported in an italian newspaper. Then it says there is a video with an odd sound. Then James Allen says he doesn't think its traction control but might be engine mapping.

As for 100's of articles on google. I can google 'bus found on Moon' and find plenty of links to that too.

I give the idea no credence because it has no evidence at all and is cooked up to try and explain why someone else is winning.

It was likened to the Benneton situation but that completely different as there are multiple primary sources saying the same thing at different times. On this you have a video of a nose and a load of secondary sources debating it on the internet.

And then you wonder why I make jokes when you present it as fact.

Very circular argument though and not one getting us anywhere so my point is made and I'll stop. Feel free to continue.
 
Much better from Seb on Sunday. Can't read too much into it due to the bad luck in qualifying but def a better attitude and that bodes well for more competition with DR.

Who knows...maybe a rabbit out of the hat at Monaco and two Mercs stuck behind him?????
 
A few years old, but perhaps still relevant video now that Vettel is no longer in the faster car on the grid. It will be interesting to see if he can finish 3rd in the Drivers' Championship this season as best of the rest.

 

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