Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[Tuscan1969]

Well my tuppence....they are all "great" drivers....or else you'd not be piloting a 220mph car around some of the most challenging corners in all kinds of weather.....

BUT to be a GREAT driver its not just stats its how you did it....Hence Moss is a GREAT even though he won nil WDC's.

Damon Hill was great(ish) but his Dad was GREAT and not just cause its 2 -1 to Mr Hill senior but because of the style and the competition he faced and the danger of the day.

Despite his seven titles MS to me is questionable - he sits right at the top due to the sheer force of will that bent Ferrari into his personal glory machine (incl. co-opting tyre manufactures with individually designed tyres etc) but for me what stops him being great is the way he has so many clouds over his reputation - traction control at Beneton, aiming at Hill in Adelaide, doing the same to J. Villeneuve just a few years later....

And finally back to the question in hand...Mr Vettel......well he's definatley better than the average....but for me the jury is out and possibly the rest of this season will define him for me. If he fights back and regularly beats DR and carries the fight to Merc then he's up there all right. But if he keeps slipping behind, if he keeps moaning and if he seems to lose interest or desire then I'm afraid he's not got my vote..... Roll on the rest of the season.....

 

[siffert_fan]

As I recall, Ferrari hadn't won either championship in ages prior to the arrival of MS. And, the other key personnel Followed MS to Ferrari, he did NOT follow them. Quite possibly they knew they had the best driver around and so went where he went.


With all of this "he had the best car" stuff being trotted out regarding Vettel, NOBODY had better use this year's results to bolster claims of LH's greatness--the Merc is quite possibly the most dominant car in decades, and no one can argue that Hamilton had any influence in making it such. He wasn't even at the team when it was designed.

 

[RasputinLives]

Interesting stat for you. In his 4 title years Seb has only won the opening race once.

In the 20 years previous the title had only been won by a driver who hadn't won the first race of the seaaon 4 times.

Maybe Seb and Red Bull always start slow.

 

[FB]

Maybe we are in for a season like 1979 where Ligier blew everyone away in the first few races (read Mercedes). then Ferrari started to come good (read Red Bull) followed by Williams spanking the field at the end (read Ferrari) only for Ferrari to take the title due to their mid-season form. I bloody hope so otherwise it's going to be as dull at 2009.

 

[Bill Boddy]

I didn't find 2009 dull. The first third was all Brawn (except for China), after that it was every man for himself with Button being reined back in due to a lack of money to develop the car, finishing with Button putting in two excellent races in not the most competitive car to make it secure.

 

[siffert_fan]

Am I the only one wondering how much, if any, effect the ongoing Michael Schumacher tragedy is having on SV?

 

[Jen]

Absolutely none, I would guess!

 

[Bill Boddy]

During FP1 this morning Horner was asked about the floor of Vettel's car. He replied that all the floors (there are only about 5 a season) are regularly circulated, this was a normal circulation. I presume he was saying that no damage had been found.

 

[Boisko2]

Very good drive today, impressive overtaking. Good job Seb.

 

[racecub]

I Agree. I've not been a massive Vettel fan, haven't had him in the same league as Hamilton and Alonso because for me Alonso and Hamilton have shown they can drive round problems, adapt to cars not best suited to their style and get poorer cars to places they likely wouldn't be in the hands of other drivers. Vettel has excelled in a car that Newey has designed around his need for massive rear downforce....which fair do's to Vettel, he has exploited beautifully. But there have been question marks, today went some way to answering those questions for me. He fought from a low position and executed some great overtakes. He went up in my estimation today. Great drive Seb!

 

[Jen]

Anyone got any ideas as to why Seb's car 'breaks' more often than Dan's?

 

[Josh]

He's being sabotaged, obviously.

 

[RasputinLives]

Thats what people said when it happened to Webber.

 

[Jen]

That's what has been said about several drivers - both current and in recent history.

I remember Kimi being called a 'car breaker' when he was at McLaren.

So why can some drive a car successfully and others have trouble getting the best from the same car?

 

[Bill Boddy]

Jen, it all evens out in the end. As has been said Webber was the one without the luck whilst Vettel had little trouble. Now Vettel has had some problems. That's Life.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I think it is possible that Seb is overdriving the car trying to compensate for his lack of pace to Daniel. The way he is killing tyres would suggest so. Perhaps he is struggling with throttle/brake overlap and burning out the gearbox and ERS. Daniel is comfortable driving the car and so can take it for a smooth ride, wheras Seb is not comfortable and perhaps trying a bit too hard to extract performance in a non-optimal or sustainable way.

 

[RasputinLives]

Was Webber doing that last year?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Quite possibly. When you have a deficit to your teammate then you can often do yourself damage by trying too hard to keep on terms with them. Especially when your teammate has a KERS related traction control system that you don't.

 

[RasputinLives]

Or a magic boost button that makes it fly.like in Back to the Future.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

That is just stupid, flippant and non-helpful to the conversation. Why be a clown?