Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they :censored: fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

035336-pn-image-sport-sebastian-vettel.jpg
 
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Slyboogy said:
Can't give him 10 for the race, but 10 for qualifying
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If you give only 9 to Vettel for the race than you can't give Alonso and Button anything more. They spun or went off more times than the young kid!

Webber can't get anything higher than Vettel either. What about Hamilton? Personally, no.

Personally Vettel is my man of the Hungarian GP meeting (Qually and GP). But i'd like to know who you'd place ahead. Cheers! :)
 
Slyboogy said:
He passed Alonso round the outside, so I wouldn't see he got "beaten", nor would I say he cracked "under pressure" if under steering wide, then letting your car run wide rather than coming back on and spinning is what you call "cracking" then I can easily say Alonso cracked under pressure as he went off many times, as did Button, and last of all Hamilton's spin....
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All true. Although not cracking under pressure from Lewis would equate to keeping the car on track and defending the position. I'm not making comparisons with other drivers. Just appraising Vettel's performance, which apart from qualifying was nothing more than good.

I'll need to look at the Alonso overtake again because as I remember it Alonso was going backwards rather than Vettel going forwards. When Hamilton took Vettel, the opposite was certainly true.
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
If you give only 9 to Vettel for the race than you can't give Alonso and Button anything more. They spun or went off more times than the young kid!

Webber can't get anything higher than Vettel either. What about Hamilton? Personally, no.

Personally Vettel is my man of the Hungarian GP meeting (Qually and GP). But i'd like to know who you'd place ahead. Cheers! :)
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The only few people who I give 9 or above are Buemi, di Resta, Ricciardo and Massa....if you want to know why then check the "driver of the weekend" thread.

As for Vettel, I will give him 8 and a half...

Like I said in the Hungarain GP discussion thread, it was a strange race for the top 5...
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
You're a Hamilton fan so I wouldn't expect any other response.

Suffice it to say, the McLarens are faster than Red Bulls these days. If they weren't, Hamilton wouldn't have forged his way through Vettel.

I'll defend Hamilton when he's to be defended. I think you know that judging by my posts today in the Hamilton thread.



Hamilton certainly didn't finish "where his car should have". Shame he couldn't translate his faster car advantage over Vettel by beating him.

How many races now that Lewis hasn't maximized his chances? Four? (Malaysia, Monaco, Canada...now this?)
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You're getting yourself in knots a bit Ray. On one thread you say that Alonso's pace on the sorts relative to Vettel on the hard shows that in race conditions the differential was not that great and that at the time Vettel was faster than Alonso because his tyres were fresher. On another you are praising Vettel for managing to overtake Alonso whilst Alonso was on the faster tyre.

On one thread you are saying that Lewis was let down by the team and on this one you are saying that he let himself down.

I am a Hamilton fan but you will find that I am also very objective. Some consistency in your statements would lend a lot more credibility to your viewpoints. ;-)
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
You're giving Massa a higher score than Vettel for binning the rear wing into a shark bite and for being a pussy by letting Alonso through unfettered? :D

Do tell! [Let's take this to the Massa thread!] ;)
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Like I said...check my post in the driver of the weekend, shouldn't be hard to find, it's the 3rd last post there....
 
ExtremeNinja said:
All true. Although not cracking under pressure from Lewis would equate to keeping the car on track and defending the position. I'm not making comparisons with other drivers. Just appraising Vettel's performance, which apart from qualifying was nothing more than good.

I'll need to look at the Alonso overtake again because as I remember it Alonso was going backwards rather than Vettel going forwards. When Hamilton took Vettel, the opposite was certainly true.
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I certainly remember Alonso going the right way along that pit straight!
 
ExtremeNinja said:
On one thread you say that Alonso's pace on the sorts relative to Vettel on the hard shows that in race conditions the differential was not that great and that at the time Vettel was faster than Alonso because his tyres were fresher.
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No I never said that. The other chap did. The other chap said the only reason why Vettel over-took Alonso was because Alonso's tyres were 6 laps older. I am actually praising Vettel for over-taking Alonso while Vettel was on the harder tyre in the worsening conditions.

ExtremeNinja said:
On one thread you are saying that Lewis was let down by the team and on this one you are saying that he let himself down.
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Well Hamilton was put under extreme pressure unnessessarily. Yes. But he still didn't maximize his chances, inspite of that. I'm hardly being inconsistent. I think a podium was still within Hamilton's grasp. McLaren blew his win...but Hamilton blew 3rd, possibly, 2nd.
 
Josh said:
I certainly remember Alonso going the right way along that pit straight!
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Yep, the Ferrari had good strait line speed but Vettel didn't overtake him on the outside of the straight. That wouldn't make sense for a start. By backwards, I am sure you realise that I mean relative in terms of sector and lap times.
 
OK Ray. Bed time for me. I'll see you all soon if there is some interesting news (which there normally is) otherwise, I'll catch you in a month. :-(
 
Cyril Dumont, Renault engine support rep to Red Bull, confirmed that Vettel's engine had problems for a "phase" of the race. He apologised for it to the team and also said that Webber's engine was fine in comparison. Here:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/7/12388.html

Add to that Vettel's break problems and the fact that he came within a stone's throw of victory when McLaren ought to have finished 1-2 and you can see why Vettel deserves a 10 for the combined qually/GP score.

Vettel didn't spin whereas Hamilton and Alonso did ... and Button went off just as many times but had the superior car.

In Canada a month-and-a-half ago, Vettel pulled away into the lead in the wet but at Hungary he was over-taken by both Hamilton and Button in not too dissimilar conditons. This is a pure indication of McLaren superiority now...and yet Sebastian INCREASED his World Championship lead over them.

Awesome!

Slyboogy said:
Like I said...check my post in the driver of the weekend...
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My friend, I checked. But I don't understand how you could give Massa a higher mark than Vettel for this meeting.

Did you see what Alonso said about Vettel after the race? He was complimentary of him.

Vettel made mince meat out of the Ferrari drivers in Hungary and Massa binned his car and was no where near Alonso. So if Alonso is taking his hat off to Vettel on this one, that's a pretty reasonable perspective.
 
When I have more time I'll tidy this thread up but just to say this is the Sebastain Vettel thread so please try and keep it on topic - you all know when you're doing it ;)

Ta

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