I don't think it's luck Mephistopheles. It was obvious from last year that once teams had understood the tyres (by Valencia) they could switch them on. I think it's part of the technical challenge. If a team gets to Brazil without understanding the tyres, then tough - they aren't random, they're just misunderstood 
I don't think it's a lottery either Slyboogy. Schumacher made a decision to stay in the garage in Q1. Because he was the one on the bubble and he stayed in, so did Jenson who was next - if MS had gone out, so too would have JB and LH. He (or his team) made a choice to try and ride it through. It's a strategic choice. I think Schumacher is doing the old football manager ploy of blaming someone else to protect the idiot in his team who cocked up.
I agree more when you talk about Alguersuari vs Buemi. 18th was definitely better than 17th last year and perhaps 10th is better than 9th ExtremeNinja and if you can get off the line as well as Kimi, then maybe they are better than 5th, but if you look at friday practice times, the fastest cars were the Red Bulls and the Lotuses.
I think they just get to the end via different routes and that made for overtaking and exciting racing.
I don't think it's a lottery either Slyboogy. Schumacher made a decision to stay in the garage in Q1. Because he was the one on the bubble and he stayed in, so did Jenson who was next - if MS had gone out, so too would have JB and LH. He (or his team) made a choice to try and ride it through. It's a strategic choice. I think Schumacher is doing the old football manager ploy of blaming someone else to protect the idiot in his team who cocked up.
I agree more when you talk about Alguersuari vs Buemi. 18th was definitely better than 17th last year and perhaps 10th is better than 9th ExtremeNinja and if you can get off the line as well as Kimi, then maybe they are better than 5th, but if you look at friday practice times, the fastest cars were the Red Bulls and the Lotuses.
I think they just get to the end via different routes and that made for overtaking and exciting racing.
The luck comes into it because of the narrow band to operation that these tyres have, nobody expected such a cool track temperature as was the case on race day in Bahrain if it had been a normal Bahrainian day the race would have turned out a whole lot differently so in that way Renault got lucky, the same happened in China for Mercedes..
All I would ask is that Pirelli give the tyres a wider range of operation thats it really....
All I would ask is that Pirelli give the tyres a wider range of operation thats it really....
If that's true Sportsman, then he must be the single best placed person to make a useful comment about them,having been a tyre tester and a top spot racer for such a long time.
After calling DRS the silicone tit of motorracing,I'll now call the Pirelli's F1's fragile inflatable doll : push too hard and you're out of the window with it.
Did you read this post.
2012 Bahrain Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion
2012 Bahrain Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion
For me, one of the things that I used to love about F1 back in the 80's was the unpredictability re. car failures... to a lesser degree I think the tyre allocation reg's inject a modicum of unpredictability into proceedings... albeit with the driver now in control of his destiny vis a vis heavy right foot... I think it is a good thing... does anyone pine for a return to the days of refueling and tyres that could last two race distances with minimal performance drop off... where the passing action was in and out of pit lane... mickey mouse slot car racing ?
As for Herr Schumachers comments... reading between the lines... after four races and being totally DOMINATED by his team mate... methinks this is him voicing his displeasure at his current situation... without railing on his team or mechanics... a little bit of subtle misdirection from his own performances...
As for Herr Schumachers comments... reading between the lines... after four races and being totally DOMINATED by his team mate... methinks this is him voicing his displeasure at his current situation... without railing on his team or mechanics... a little bit of subtle misdirection from his own performances...
tranquility2k9
Podium Finisher
Looks like Brundle agrees with Schumacher's comments:- http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/22058/7698801/Reflections-On-Bahrain
Also saying 2 other leading drivers agree. I think it is a shame when they cannot push to the limit in the race.
Also saying 2 other leading drivers agree. I think it is a shame when they cannot push to the limit in the race.
I don't think the problem is due to the tryes.Pirelli have done exactly what the were asked to do by the FIA.
The problem lies here.For the 2011 season the FIA cut the tyre allowance from fourteen sets of tyres to eleven.
That is what is causing the cars not to run in qualifying.
The problem lies here.For the 2011 season the FIA cut the tyre allowance from fourteen sets of tyres to eleven.
That is what is causing the cars not to run in qualifying.
I have to confess that I am growing very weary with the constant Schumacher bashing. It was FERRARI that had the arrangement with the tyre company, NOT Schumacher, so I don't see how MS can be faulted. As for Anderson's comments, there was a tyre war on at that time which makes all the difference in the world. In such conditions, one team is always preferred over others-Renault were favoured at the beginning of the turbo era, Lotus were preferred at the start of the downforce era and so on. I don't see any slating going on aimed at Colin Chapman for having the cheek to get preferential treatment when it came to tyres.
As for Schumachers comments regarding the current tyre situation, I agree with tranquility2k9.
As for Schumachers comments regarding the current tyre situation, I agree with tranquility2k9.
sportsman Pirelli have only done as the FIA have asked, but in my opinion the tyre wear was slightly too excessive in Bahrain.
The tyre allowance was cut down to 11 sets first for the 2010 season before Pirelli joined and there wasn't the issue of cars not running in Q3 that season.
In the Bahrain qualifying if you drove at the car's limit in the first sector your tyres would already be off in the final sector. If you can't even do just one whole lap on the limit, I think the wear is a bit excessive. There'll be no more engineers on the radio in the race saying, "we need 10 laps of qualifying" it'll just be the tyre saving advice we have now.
Schumacher wasn't the only one criticising the tyres he was just the most vocal. The only positive thing is that it's the same for everyone.
The tyre allowance was cut down to 11 sets first for the 2010 season before Pirelli joined and there wasn't the issue of cars not running in Q3 that season.
In the Bahrain qualifying if you drove at the car's limit in the first sector your tyres would already be off in the final sector. If you can't even do just one whole lap on the limit, I think the wear is a bit excessive. There'll be no more engineers on the radio in the race saying, "we need 10 laps of qualifying" it'll just be the tyre saving advice we have now.
Schumacher wasn't the only one criticising the tyres he was just the most vocal. The only positive thing is that it's the same for everyone.
Just a question - what did we all prefer of the various formats:
- No fuel or tyre stops
- No fuel stops
- No tyre stops
- Both fuel and tyres stops
For me it has to be fuel and tyre stops but not when they had to run race fuel in quali that was just stupid..
The big problem I see with the Bahrain race was that Pirelli had not run there, and I am guessing not a lot else had either, so not only was there issues with a dirty track, the tyres were probably not really suited. I seem to recall the teams got used to the tyres fairly quickly last year, and all the issues that we saw at the start of the season, and all the tip toeing was greatly reduced, as teams worked out how to really use the tyres.
Personally, I like to see things being mixed up. The tyres would allow a driver to push from start to finish, but he would need to stop more, and maybe overtake more, admittedly I think the tyre choice in Bahrain was too agressive, but you cant win them all.
I like the current racing, the tyre issues add a new dimension to the races, and an element of unpredictability that was lacking in the bridgestone era. And technically, the teams will adapt, some better than others, and the ability to deal with the tyres would appear to be a significant contributing factor to the variation in front runners that we have had so far.
So what if you need to choose when to use? Personally, if we get this kind of close action through the season, albeit with a less agressive tyre choice, I think it will be hailed as a success.
Either way, as has been said before, Pirelli are providing the kind of tyres they have been asked to provide, and have done so very well, and should not be singled out for criticism.
Personally, I like to see things being mixed up. The tyres would allow a driver to push from start to finish, but he would need to stop more, and maybe overtake more, admittedly I think the tyre choice in Bahrain was too agressive, but you cant win them all.
I like the current racing, the tyre issues add a new dimension to the races, and an element of unpredictability that was lacking in the bridgestone era. And technically, the teams will adapt, some better than others, and the ability to deal with the tyres would appear to be a significant contributing factor to the variation in front runners that we have had so far.
So what if you need to choose when to use? Personally, if we get this kind of close action through the season, albeit with a less agressive tyre choice, I think it will be hailed as a success.
Either way, as has been said before, Pirelli are providing the kind of tyres they have been asked to provide, and have done so very well, and should not be singled out for criticism.
According to Gary Anderson that's what Lotus did, aiming for "pole".
"Their approach to the race was interesting, and in hindsight they might think they could have won it. They chose to have Kimi Raikkonen deliberately miss out on the top-10 qualifying shoot-out so he could have more fresh sets of tyres for the race. That worked well thanks to an aggressive first few laps from Raikkonen, in which he made up a lot of places. But their race strategy could probably have been a little more aggressive and responsive."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17816565
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