Schumacher criticises Pirelli tyres

Tarod

Rookie
Yeah but after 3 dray races the winner was the first driver leading the race at the first lap... Not really a lottery!
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Because he has a clear track and able to perserve the tyres, while the rest squabble over each other making their tyres drop off?
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
The big problem I see with the Bahrain race was that Pirelli had not run there, and I am guessing not a lot else had either, so not only was there issues with a dirty track, the tyres were probably not really suited.
Slightly off topic and I'm aware that the Pirelli compounds have changed quite a bit since but there was a tyre test in Abu Dhabi (not entirely dissimilar conditions to Bahrain) at the end of of the 2010 season, so they may have a little bit of data on what to expect in a warm, dusty, desert climate.
 

GeoffP

Thank you and good night
Contributor
I don't like the tyres, I think they are too big a factor. The drivers still have to drive to the engine, brakes, gearbox in addition to good old fashioned racing.

When the track is so covered with such large lumps of tyre debris, I think calling them "marbles" these days is pushing it, before the first round of pit stops then you are also managing a degrading track.

The idea for Pirelli was good, but when designing a car the teams gain a second a lap 1/10th at a time. The FIA seem to have decided to cut corners on the effort.

I actually am coming round to DRS, but mainly because it doesn't seem to be causing many overtakes between competitive cars, I can agree with KERS as it is a limited resource driver tool available to all, but I think the FIA has got 2/10ths of the problem with those. They seem to be shooting for 8/10ths with the tyres and it's too big an ask.
 

The Pits

Harumph. Again.
Valued Member
Speshal The climate should not have been an issue, but the track layout and surface, kerbs, sand (I believe Abu Dhabi deals with the sand quite well) so there would be some calculations, but a lot of guesswork, and they maybe got it a little wrong.
 

Dario Resta

Podium Finisher
Speshal The climate should not have been an issue, but the track layout and surface, kerbs, sand (I believe Abu Dhabi deals with the sand quite well) so there would be some calculations, but a lot of guesswork, and they maybe got it a little wrong.
Brundle said that Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Singapore all use stone imported from Shropshire in the track surface.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Are not people forgetting the teams had this problem last year and they decided to keep the rules when everyone was saving tyres for races from quali

Now so far we've seen Toro Rosso's and Sauber s get points from starting low down in 2011

The nearest anyone has got to winning for being knocked out in Q1 not due to weather was Webber last year in CHina

If one of the top teams starts winning starts winning more often from the back there will be uproar to change the rules

Schumacher say's he cant push but tyre management has always been part of F1 so it is nothing new except Pirelli have been told not to make tyres like Bridgestones which were able to do 100 laps if there was no mandatory change to other sets rule in dry conditions

i remember BRidgestones in Melbourne 2009 fell away by 5 laps and lost about 2 seconds per lap and by the end of 2010 they lasted the wole race...Vettel benefitted in MOnza doing a last lap pitstop and we kept having Saubers trying to do 60 laps on one set

Prost would have loved these regulations ... the people who are complaining are those who are losing the most ..yes Schumacher with custom made Bridgestones in his hey day
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
yes Schumacher with custom made Bridgestones in his hey day
First of all there are several drivers complaining, and they are not losing out the most.

Is Schumacher losing the most from this situation? No.

Schumacher's had 4 races out of 4 where something has ruined his race, and it's not been tyres.
Australia mechanical failure.
Malaysia punted off by Grosjean.
China wheel wasn't fitted properly.
Bahrain DRS failed in qualifying knocking him out.

People are quick to point out that Schumacher is moaning because he is losing out a lot with these tyres this season, if he didn't have all those problems in those races, he would certainly be in the top 5 in the championship, as the only top driver to have had problems through no fault of his own this season effecting his race results massively. (Yeah, I know, that's motor racing for you).

(Hope I don't get pulled up for this by the moderators, but I felt as if I should quote this certain bit.)
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Slyboogy he should have more fresher tyres than everyone else in front ... I am sure if he was up to 5th like Spa last year he would be saying what a fun race he had

Like I said the teams had a chance last year to change the rules even though they saw drivers and teams were deliberately saving sets but they all said lets keep it that way

So they all only have themselves to blame or the drivers should complain to their bosses not Pirelli


The only race last year I got annoyed with Pirelli was Monaco when Vettel won lasting s48 laps on old tyres before the flag came out...even Pirelli realised that tyres should not be changed on restart
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
LOL

Don't feel you can't quote at all, highlighting the section you are addressing is fine.

In the post race interview Schui said (I paraphrase) "90% of the drivers on the grid agree with me"

*edit found it

The seven-time champion added: "If 80 or 90% complain, maybe Pirelli should think about it.
"I don't think it is right only one or two teams can handle it and the rest struggle so much."
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Speshal so which 10-20% are happy about the current regulations...probably those at the front who can deal with it better

All Pirelli can do is make tyres last a bit longer say 25 to 30 laps but not the whole race

the only criticism of Pirelli is the cliff bit when suddenly a driver has no grip rather than slow degradation

I don;t remember any other tyre company petition for the sole tyre deal after Bridgestone said they were leaving
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Slyboogy not as bad as Sauber who always try and last the race being mobile chicanes when they can

Force Inda , Sauber mainly but I am sure people will say something different if they both won more races that way
 

Viscount

Pole Sitter
Contributor
Like I said the teams had a chance last year to change the rules even though they saw drivers and teams were deliberately saving sets but they all said lets keep it that way
I wasn't aware the teams were able to change the rules, thought that was the FIA?
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Pole position is now 11th place. If you can come 11th fastest in Q2 and you have a decent car for the race then you have a net pole. That is a sensationalist version of my understanding of things as they are in F1 at the moment.
Thats rubbish. Do you know who the last winner from 11th was?

David Coulthard, 2003 Australian Grand Prix. Following in the footsteps of Scheckter, Mass and Gethin as winners from that position. Thanks to Manipe F1, we can see how each grid position has fared since the new Pirelli tyres appeared in 2011:

TBY.jpg


With the current tyres - the Pirelli 'marshmellows' - there has only been once the polesitter has finished outside the top 4: namely when Sebastian Vettel burst a tyre in Abu Dhabi. Thus the only polesitter not to reach the podium (having reached lap 2) since the start of 2011 was Mark Webber in Barcelona, who got caught up behind the driver who jumped him off the line.

11th has 1 top 4 finish (Raikkonen). Thats not net pole whatever car is sitting in it.
 

tooncheese

Hans Heyer
Contributor
jez101 18th and 17th are usually populated by midfield cars, and will be very similar except 18th has an extra set of softs. For 19th, that almost always features a new team.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
One of the biggest changes Pirelli made this year is that the shoulders of the tyres are much squarer than before. The effects
the fronts more than the rears, making the handling change more pronounced and contributing greatly to the "marbles" off-line.
 
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