Briatore is now claiming he's going to sue the FIA and set up a rival series
'Distraught' Briatore may go down the legal route
Renault guilty of race fixing
- Thread starter Brogan
- Start date
I think he has about as much chance as platting fog as he has of setting up a rival series.
On the point of not being able to defend himself, given that Renault chose not to contest the charges and that at the time Briatore and Symonds worked for Renault then it's correct that the three groups should be treated as one thing. Just because he left Renault dosn't mean that he is suddenly no longer culpable for his actions while there.
If he was as inocent as he claims to be then surely he would have already taken legal advice and asked to be heard at the FIA meeting on Monday.
On the point of not being able to defend himself, given that Renault chose not to contest the charges and that at the time Briatore and Symonds worked for Renault then it's correct that the three groups should be treated as one thing. Just because he left Renault dosn't mean that he is suddenly no longer culpable for his actions while there.
If he was as inocent as he claims to be then surely he would have already taken legal advice and asked to be heard at the FIA meeting on Monday.
I know there are lots of opinions and viewpoints on this but the Telegraph sums it up very well for me.
Telegraph: Money talks as realpolitik guides FIA's judgment on Renault crash scandal
All very true.
The trouble is, we can't do anything about the FIA and the way they run the sport. As the article says, money talks. We as fans will still watch on Sunday. People talk about the effect on the sponsors, if anything it will help. All that exposure is bound to bring more focus on the sport and more coverage. If I was a sponsor I would be more than happy. Just look at this site, 500 posts since in one day !!! There are hundreds of internet boards buzzing around the world and then there are the official F1 sites. It also (by chance) happens to be the Singapore GP of all GPs this weekend so people who may not have watched for a whle will be tuning in just by association.
The FIA know all this and are quite content to let things roll on as they are. The lack of outcry from other teams has been quite interesting. Normally team heads are climbing over themselves to be the first to get their quotes in the papers loudly tutting or coming all high and mighty. This time it seems very quiet. I guess it's what you might call the FOTA effect.
I personally don't care where Briatore goes, he was responsible along with Pat Symonds (and until proven otherwise) for cheating. As for Nelson Piquet Jnr I don't think he should be condemed for his roll in this while the likes of Alonso (who gained the most) get very little flak. Alonso who tried the same trick of holding the team to ransom at Mclaren over the e-mails with De La Rosa has a knack of falling in the poo and coming up smelling of roses dosn't he?
The trouble is, we can't do anything about the FIA and the way they run the sport. As the article says, money talks. We as fans will still watch on Sunday. People talk about the effect on the sponsors, if anything it will help. All that exposure is bound to bring more focus on the sport and more coverage. If I was a sponsor I would be more than happy. Just look at this site, 500 posts since in one day !!! There are hundreds of internet boards buzzing around the world and then there are the official F1 sites. It also (by chance) happens to be the Singapore GP of all GPs this weekend so people who may not have watched for a whle will be tuning in just by association.
The FIA know all this and are quite content to let things roll on as they are. The lack of outcry from other teams has been quite interesting. Normally team heads are climbing over themselves to be the first to get their quotes in the papers loudly tutting or coming all high and mighty. This time it seems very quiet. I guess it's what you might call the FOTA effect.
I personally don't care where Briatore goes, he was responsible along with Pat Symonds (and until proven otherwise) for cheating. As for Nelson Piquet Jnr I don't think he should be condemed for his roll in this while the likes of Alonso (who gained the most) get very little flak. Alonso who tried the same trick of holding the team to ransom at Mclaren over the e-mails with De La Rosa has a knack of falling in the poo and coming up smelling of roses dosn't he?
I'm not sure Alonso smelt of roses when he left McLaren. However, as Andrew Benson says on the BBC the fact that Alonso, after the race, turned to Flav and said
"That safety car was a lucky break, wasn't it?"
kind of suggests that he was not involved because if he had known about the plot then this is not the message he'd want to broadcast to the world.
I'd like to see Flav's rival series, considering he is banned from all FIA tracks. The FOTA series with manufacturer support failed to get off the ground, so the one prat and his '95 Benetton racing around the carpark at Loftus Road isn't going to be too successful, is it?
Pillock.
"That safety car was a lucky break, wasn't it?"
kind of suggests that he was not involved because if he had known about the plot then this is not the message he'd want to broadcast to the world.
I'd like to see Flav's rival series, considering he is banned from all FIA tracks. The FOTA series with manufacturer support failed to get off the ground, so the one prat and his '95 Benetton racing around the carpark at Loftus Road isn't going to be too successful, is it?
Pillock.
I find it interesting that Flavio is considering action against the FIA to prove his innocence - funny that he hasn't therefore complained about wrongful dissmissal from Renault. If he had, and made claims that his dissmissal prevented him from being represented before the FIA, the FIA's case might have had to be postponed or amended to allow his entry.
I somehow get the feeling that Flavio's rival series will be filed in a drawer somerwhere with his legal case against the FIA, legal case against Renault, Renault's case against Piquet and, of course, the fat man's integrity!
BTW, do I think Renault should have been punished more? No, they have lost their principle, technical director and focus mid season, and have the sword of Damacles hanging over their head. McLaren's fine was excessive, and therefore, if you're trying to get it right it can't be compared. I want Renault invloved in F1, but I would like a message to be sent to prevent other teams behaving this way - it's a shame that Piquet cannot be punished because of his immunity, but that is the nature of the legal beast. A two year suspended suspension is reasonably irrelevent, if they did the same thing in three or four years do you really believe they'd be allowed to race again?
I somehow get the feeling that Flavio's rival series will be filed in a drawer somerwhere with his legal case against the FIA, legal case against Renault, Renault's case against Piquet and, of course, the fat man's integrity!
BTW, do I think Renault should have been punished more? No, they have lost their principle, technical director and focus mid season, and have the sword of Damacles hanging over their head. McLaren's fine was excessive, and therefore, if you're trying to get it right it can't be compared. I want Renault invloved in F1, but I would like a message to be sent to prevent other teams behaving this way - it's a shame that Piquet cannot be punished because of his immunity, but that is the nature of the legal beast. A two year suspended suspension is reasonably irrelevent, if they did the same thing in three or four years do you really believe they'd be allowed to race again?
I love how when Flav was at Renault they were on about "We'll prepare our case and present it to the WMSC on 21 September".
Now I can imagine the conversation:
Renault clearly pleaded guilty because the case had as much chance of winning as I have of getting into the England squad in time for South Africa. However, despite the fact the lawyers thought that bothering with a defence would be pointless this time, Briatore reckons he can win it "in the courts of Paris"!
Bully boy tactics, Flav, only work if you're the bully. You're not only no longer the biggest kid in the playground, but you've been expelled from the school. The FIA don't have a history of losing legal cases, and let's face it, the FIA have so much evidence that, in legal parlance, its open and shut!
Accept your punishment like a man, and show us that your character is worth tuppence. I know you've never acted honourably before, but maybe you should try it rather than going down looking like the turd you are!
Now I can imagine the conversation:
FB: Right, we need our defence by 21 September. Can you do it?
Lawyer: Erm... there are one or two things we need to discuss, Mr. Briatore!
FB: Like what?
Lawyer: You're screwed, mate.
Renault clearly pleaded guilty because the case had as much chance of winning as I have of getting into the England squad in time for South Africa. However, despite the fact the lawyers thought that bothering with a defence would be pointless this time, Briatore reckons he can win it "in the courts of Paris"!
Bully boy tactics, Flav, only work if you're the bully. You're not only no longer the biggest kid in the playground, but you've been expelled from the school. The FIA don't have a history of losing legal cases, and let's face it, the FIA have so much evidence that, in legal parlance, its open and shut!
Accept your punishment like a man, and show us that your character is worth tuppence. I know you've never acted honourably before, but maybe you should try it rather than going down looking like the turd you are!
bogaTYR
Points Scorer
FIA made a whoopsadaisy here me thinks.
i think we will see flav back in F1 pretty soon. there is no way under european law you can prevent or forbid anyone to be employed in his profession. and thats exactly what FIA is doing, flav is prevented from being in charge of a racing team. there used to be competition clauses in contracts where people were not allowed to work in the same field for 1 year. also not allowed by european labour laws cos it takes away people's right to earn money. where it makes no difference if that person is a zillionaire or a pauper.
if flav can make a clear case to a court that FIA is preventing him from doing his job, then i see no reason why any court wouldn't throw out this decision immediately. nothing to do with liking flav or agreeing or not agreeing with the verdict. its against european law.
oh, my personal view on the matter?
the FIA was right. it would make F1 an even bigger farce then some people already think it is if race results are changed one year later.
i think we will see flav back in F1 pretty soon. there is no way under european law you can prevent or forbid anyone to be employed in his profession. and thats exactly what FIA is doing, flav is prevented from being in charge of a racing team. there used to be competition clauses in contracts where people were not allowed to work in the same field for 1 year. also not allowed by european labour laws cos it takes away people's right to earn money. where it makes no difference if that person is a zillionaire or a pauper.
if flav can make a clear case to a court that FIA is preventing him from doing his job, then i see no reason why any court wouldn't throw out this decision immediately. nothing to do with liking flav or agreeing or not agreeing with the verdict. its against european law.
oh, my personal view on the matter?
the FIA was right. it would make F1 an even bigger farce then some people already think it is if race results are changed one year later.
I don't think any sporting ban is against European law, to be honest. He's got the right to earn money. And I don't think there is any team idiotic enough to employ damaged goods such as himself and find themselves on the end of a whole range of dodgy stewarding decisions, so he'd have to form his own team. And who approves teams in F1? The FIA!
The European courts cannot force F1 to employ Flavio Briatore. He got sacked from Renault for gross misconduct and no plonker is going to agree that its unfair dismissal. Frankly, he's buggered!
The European courts cannot force F1 to employ Flavio Briatore. He got sacked from Renault for gross misconduct and no plonker is going to agree that its unfair dismissal. Frankly, he's buggered!
The comments by Ben Sulayem, Vice President for sport at the FIA, make the FIA and the verdict look even worse in my opinion.
Ben Sulayem: Renault decision is fair
I think that makes it very clear why Renault were not penalised.
Ben Sulayem: Renault decision is fair
Ok so this sounds like the American practice of Plea Bargaining.
Renault "Ok we know we did wrong and you've got us bang to rights and we fully expect you to throw the book at us. We will plead no contest and ask Symonds and Briatore to resign if you give us a fine, ok remove the result and perhaps a small ban?"
FIA "Ooooh no way, that would be too harsh, what would the organisors and sponsors say. How about you plead no contest, ask Symonds and Briatore to resign. The result still stands and we give you a slap on the wrist and a suspended two year ban and you promise us to be good boys. Sound Fair"
Renault "Er yeah ok we'll take that."
The FIA just become more laughable with every verdict. What do they take us for??
And I've just noticed the shotgun blast into the other foot!!
Could you imagine the judge in a court case afterwards saying "yes the murderer was guilty as sin but he belonged to my local private members club and well I know he killed three people in a shocking way but we've got to think of the image of the club"
How can these people be allowed to sit in judgement?? It's a joke. I give up.
The FIA have published the documents.
There is mention of a "Witness X" who was present at a meeting when the plan to crash was told by Symonds to Briatore.
This "Witness X" therefore knew of the plan before it was carried out and has, like Piquet, kept quiet about it until now.
This is the FIA's explanation as to why they didn't investigate at the time:
"After the race, the sequence of events described above, giving rise to such an obvious benefit for Renault F1 and Mr Alonso, had raised suspicion and there was a degree of speculation that Mr Piquet Jnr’s crash had been deliberate. Rumours continued to circulate in the weeks that followed the race. Mr Piquet Jnr’s father,
Nelson Piquet Snr, indicated privately to an FIA official that the crash may have been deliberate, though at that time Mr Piquet Jnr was still under contract with Renault F1 and it was understood that he would not be prepared to make a statement to the FIA. The FIA considered its position and concluded that it did not have sufficient evidence at that time to launch a detailed investigation."
Pat Symonds refused the immunity offered to him.
His penalty wasn't as severe as Briatore because he didn't lie, simply by just not answering the FIA's questions.
The "significant contribution" that Renault are making to the FIA safety campaign takes the form of expertise and resources and there is no mention of any money being paid.
World Motor Sport Council Documents
http://fialive.fiacommunications.co...eleases/wmsc/2009/Documents/wmsc_decision.pdf
http://fialive.fiacommunications.co...s/wmsc/2009/Documents/wmsc_dossier_210909.pdf
There is mention of a "Witness X" who was present at a meeting when the plan to crash was told by Symonds to Briatore.
This "Witness X" therefore knew of the plan before it was carried out and has, like Piquet, kept quiet about it until now.
This is the FIA's explanation as to why they didn't investigate at the time:
"After the race, the sequence of events described above, giving rise to such an obvious benefit for Renault F1 and Mr Alonso, had raised suspicion and there was a degree of speculation that Mr Piquet Jnr’s crash had been deliberate. Rumours continued to circulate in the weeks that followed the race. Mr Piquet Jnr’s father,
Nelson Piquet Snr, indicated privately to an FIA official that the crash may have been deliberate, though at that time Mr Piquet Jnr was still under contract with Renault F1 and it was understood that he would not be prepared to make a statement to the FIA. The FIA considered its position and concluded that it did not have sufficient evidence at that time to launch a detailed investigation."
Pat Symonds refused the immunity offered to him.
His penalty wasn't as severe as Briatore because he didn't lie, simply by just not answering the FIA's questions.
The "significant contribution" that Renault are making to the FIA safety campaign takes the form of expertise and resources and there is no mention of any money being paid.
World Motor Sport Council Documents
http://fialive.fiacommunications.co...eleases/wmsc/2009/Documents/wmsc_decision.pdf
http://fialive.fiacommunications.co...s/wmsc/2009/Documents/wmsc_dossier_210909.pdf
bogaTYR
Points Scorer
witness X?
not nando, please dont let it be nando...
TBY, thanks for a very eloquent reply
as usual. if it would be a sport related decision, then you might be right. but this goes much further. this really is like what the germans call a berufsverbot. which is kinda like someone not being allowed to do his job.
but, look on the bright side!
at least we dont have to think what does he have that i dont cos we no longer get to see his yacht and his girlfriends
not nando, please dont let it be nando...
TBY, thanks for a very eloquent reply
as usual. if it would be a sport related decision, then you might be right. but this goes much further. this really is like what the germans call a berufsverbot. which is kinda like someone not being allowed to do his job.but, look on the bright side!
at least we dont have to think what does he have that i dont cos we no longer get to see his yacht and his girlfriends
Just to remind us all what we will be missing now Flav is banned.
Click here for the unedited file (if you're brave enough
) http://f1tailpipe.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/flavio_thong.jpg
Couldn't find a picture of Pat Symonds teeth
Click here for the unedited file (if you're brave enough
) http://f1tailpipe.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/flavio_thong.jpgCouldn't find a picture of Pat Symonds teeth
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rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
Thanks for that FB - I'm going to have to have a mind bleach now!
So one other person in the team knew? One more person who refused to come forward in the last year and blow the whistle. How many other people knew? It's not clear from the WMSC documents. Did they actually interview anyone else who may have knew?
Does anyone get the impression this investigation was somewhat rushed?
So one other person in the team knew? One more person who refused to come forward in the last year and blow the whistle. How many other people knew? It's not clear from the WMSC documents. Did they actually interview anyone else who may have knew?
Does anyone get the impression this investigation was somewhat rushed?
Thanks FB. It's not often I have to get my Mod stick out but on this occasion I think you deserve a damn good thrashing.
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