Renault guilty of race fixing

[fat jez]

I feel some sympathy for Rosberg, it would have been his first win in F1 and Williams team for a few years.

They must feel a tad angry.

Yep, but the rules state that the championship results have to stand at the end of the championship year. If Williams should be angry at anyone, it's NP for not coming forward sooner. Interestingly, Williams were the only team to write to the FIA providing support for Renault (or at least, theirs is the only letter in the dossier released by the FIA).

 

[Brogan]

Well Rosberg wouldn't have finished 2nd if it wasn't for Piquet's crash.

Rosberg would only have got the win if Alonso had been disqualified but it would still have been a tainted win due to the positions all changing.

The person who must be most aggrieved is Massa.
Prior to the crash he was comfortably leading and if it had finished Massa 1st and Hamilton 2nd then he would have had 87 points to Hamilton's 86.
Instead Hamilton was on 84 points after the race and Massa 77.

Still, we'll never know what actually would have happened so it is what it is.

 

[teabagyokel]

Yeah, but his position owed to the crash and SC (and particularly Fisi getting up to 3rd) as did Alonso. Rosberg was 9th when the Safety Car came out and was forced to pit during the SC, getting him a 10 second stop/go. However, he was able to bomb clear of everyone and come out just behind Alonso!

 

[fat jez]

Still, we'll never know what actually would have happened so it is what it is.

Which is presumably why the results have to stand, it would be too much of a headache to try and work everything out and somebody would end up upset

 

[Brogan]

Which is presumably why the results have to stand, it would be too much of a headache to try and work everything out and somebody would end up upset

I posted this on the other thread but it doesn't factor in points changes at susbsequent races which undoubtedly would have happened due to different strategies, etc.

.   	                After Singapore	Total

No change to results

Lewis Hamilton		84		98 (WDC)

Felipe Massa		77		97



Alonso disqualified and Hamilton moves up to 2nd		

Lewis Hamilton		86		100 (WDC)

Felipe Massa		77		97



Race annulled and all points removed		

Lewis Hamilton		78		92

Felipe Massa		77		97 (WDC)



Race declared prior to the crash at less than half distance and half points awarded

Lewis Hamilton		82		96

Felipe Massa		82		102 (WDC)



Massa finished 1st and Hamilton 2nd (assuming there had been no crash)		

Lewis Hamilton		86		100

Felipe Massa		87		107 (WDC)

 

[Brogan]

Here's a question to ponder.

Who had the upper hand when it came to negotiating the deal between Renault and the FIA?

Was it that Renault wanted to stay in F1 so the FIA had the upper hand?
Or was it that the FIA didn't want Renault to leave F1 and so Renault had the upper hand?

I would suggest the latter.

 

[fat jez]

I would suggest the latter.

I would as well. I don't think the team leaving the grid would create as big a problem as the shortage of engine suppliers. I mean, at the moment, there are 5 suppliers to the F1 grid? Mercedes, Renault, Toyota, BMW and Ferarri. BMW are out of the picture anyway and Renault leaving would mean we are down to 3 suppliers, plus Cosworth who are returning. But could Cosworth supply all 3 new teams and take up the slack left by Renault leaving?

 

[cider_and_toast]

Fernando Alonso quote during investigation into Renault Race Fixing:

"I don't get involved in strategy I leave that to the team"

Fernando Alonso quote in the post 2008 Japanese GP press conference telling the world how his strategy call changed the race:

"Q: You took on less fuel in the first stop, so perhaps that was influential in how the car handled?

Alonso: Yeah, obviously we were P2 when we stopped for the first time, so I asked the team if we can manage to exit the pits in front of Robert because I wanted some free air in the second stint, so they had to give me less fuel to do that but the problem is you need to open a gap in the second stint. Sometimes you can do it, sometimes you can't but today the car was perfect and I was able to do it."

Nuff Said !!

 

[teabagyokel]

I would not imagine that Alonso was aware of Piquet's deception, just because surely even Briatore would not be as stupid to tell a man who got sacked from his previous job for grassing his team up to the FIA for a misdemeanour a secret that would give him the opportunity to grass his team up to the FIA for a misdemeanour.

Unless he's far more stupid than he looks in those new denim shorts on Page 6!

 

[cider_and_toast]

I agree with you TBY that on balance Alonso was not aware of the plan however I still think that his defence of leaving strategy to the team was a bit flawed.

I'm glad you like the modification to Flabio.

 

[Muddytalker]

I understand what you're saying there CaT, but I think there's a difference between leaving your lead engineer to plan and finalise strategy prior to the race (Alonso's 1st quote), and having a say mid-race, in response to the situation at that time (Alonso's 2nd quote).

 

[RickD]

I still think you'd want to know about it as a driver and would definitely ask questions about the strategy if it looked as bad as his must have before the race.

I therefore think there is absolutely no way he was ignorant of what was going to happen..

 

[Brogan]

How long is it going to be before the identity of Witness X is leaked?

"Surely someone senior within the organisation who would have sufficient 'security clearance' to be party to such discussions?" suggested one hack. "Maybe even their star driver, Fernando Alonso?" said another. "Did you notice that in the audio transcript, the FIA lawyer Paul Harris slipped up and referred to Witness X as Witness A at one point?!"

This article from the Telegraph raises the same point that many of us already have, why does the FIA believe Piquet's version of events when it contradicts the statements of both Pat Symonds and Witness X?
Surely if Witness X is credible enough to base the whole case on, then the FIA must accept that it was Piquet who initially suggested crashing?

Nelson Piquet Jnr accused by 'Witness X' in Renault race-fixing scandal

Oh and here's a shot of the Renault team celebrating after Alonso's "win".
Guess who's missing?

 

[cider_and_toast]

I don't believe that "Witness X" could be Alonso. Soon enought the name of Witness X will make it's way into the papers and if X turns out to be Alonso then the whole farce will just explode. The FIA's stance has always been that they believe Alonso was unaware of the events that took place during the GP. If it were to come out Alonso was X then that stance would have to change to "well ok, he did know about it in advance but he didn't agree with it, honest!". Not even the FIA would leave itself that open.

Witness X has been consistantly described by the FIA and in various press reports as a member of the Renault engineering staff and the most likely candidate must be Piquets race engineer.

"Guess who's missing? "

This is the hardest game of "Where's Wally" I've ever played. I give up, I can't see him anywhere!!

 

[fat jez]

Oh and here's a shot of the Renault team celebrating after Alonso's "win".
Guess who's missing?

Pat Symonds?

 

[Muddytalker]

Max?

My proper answer - I can't see NPj there

 

[Brogan]

My proper answer - I can't see NPj there

That's (unsurprisingly) what I was suggesting

However, if you look closely, you can just see someone to Alonso's left wearing a cap, behind that guy's hand.
Not sure if that's him or not?

 

[FB]

The real race winner Nico Rosberg appears to be missing

Do you think Alonso will do the decent thing and at least give him the Bridgestone race winners cap?

 

[RickD]

Thats doubtful FB, can't imagine Alonso having any morals, can you?

As for the pic, I definitely think its Pat Symonds thats missing..

 

[GeoffP]

As I mentioned before I am convinced the first meeting where Nelsinho tabled the idea of the crash would have had Nelsinho's race engineer present, the one where he was given instructions to crash was just Him, Rob and Flavio.

Nelsiho's race engineer is still employed by Renault and would have reported the meeting details in accordance with corporate whistleblower procedures.

As a result Renault have a legal responsibility to keep Mr X's identity secret. The only people who are certain of his identity are the other meeting attendees.

Should any of them release his identity then the backlash against them would continue, should Renault, they would be accountable for breach of Exchange regulations and the subsequent penalty could be anything up to de-listing (it's a million to one chance, but it might just happen!)

I'm sure some names will be bandied around, but whether there'll ever be confirmation - I certainly hope not.