Hmmm, so even though McLaren are going to have to pay for more engines whether this change passes or not due to their current rate of attrition (Unless someone actually believes that Honda can make an engine that will last for 10+races by the mid point of the season) I don't see why they are arguing against this on cost basis?
Powertrain Components Usage 2015
- Thread starter sushifiesta
- Start date
Since both RB and McLaren will obviously bee buying additional engines, why can't Renault and Honda do additional development work on them? What are the FIA going to do:
1) move them to the back of the grid (already done by virtue of buying added power units)
2) Exclude them, thereby assuring that viewership drops even further, as well as risking that the teams (especially RB) decide to leave F1 altogether?
1) move them to the back of the grid (already done by virtue of buying added power units)
2) Exclude them, thereby assuring that viewership drops even further, as well as risking that the teams (especially RB) decide to leave F1 altogether?
I haven't been able to update this for a while but here's the state of play after the Spanish GP / going in to the Monaco weekend. The percentages are now based on a limit of 4 units of each type per season, as it seems the teams have rejected the idea of increasing it to 5.
And as a bonus a plot to show how things are progressing so far for each of the engine manufacturers. It's for the total number of components (of any type) used and I've added a dotted green line as a rough approximation of what the ideal usage scenario would be (new units fitted every 4 or 5 races):
And as a bonus a plot to show how things are progressing so far for each of the engine manufacturers. It's for the total number of components (of any type) used and I've added a dotted green line as a rough approximation of what the ideal usage scenario would be (new units fitted every 4 or 5 races):
As the 6th race of the season was Monaco, where it's pointless to use new units as power is not so critical for lap time, we see in the graph above that Ferrari decided to introduce new units one race early at Spain, whereas Mercedes (spoiler: they didn't use new units in Monaco) have decided to extend the normal lifetime of their units by one race and will (almost certainly) bring new units to Canada.
I was thinking about this and it begged the question - if Ferrari were bringing a big update to Canada why didn't they mimic Mercedes and keep using their first set of units until Canada rather than having to keep using the "old spec" units introduced in Spain. Then I saw this, so Ferrari are not in fact using any tokens for Canada:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-rules-out-using-engine-tokens-for-canada/
Mercedes are doing the same with any improvements coming from "reliability updates" and not using any development tokens.
I thought it was interesting that by looking at the stats here we could probably have predicted that Ferrari were not going to use any development tokens in Canada as early as the Spanish grand prix three weeks ago.
I was thinking about this and it begged the question - if Ferrari were bringing a big update to Canada why didn't they mimic Mercedes and keep using their first set of units until Canada rather than having to keep using the "old spec" units introduced in Spain. Then I saw this, so Ferrari are not in fact using any tokens for Canada:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-rules-out-using-engine-tokens-for-canada/
Mercedes are doing the same with any improvements coming from "reliability updates" and not using any development tokens.
I thought it was interesting that by looking at the stats here we could probably have predicted that Ferrari were not going to use any development tokens in Canada as early as the Spanish grand prix three weeks ago.
Well, now we are getting stories that Ferrari and Honda have used development tokens (but Ferrari have not confirmed whether the updates are coming for Montreal): http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/1...da-use-engine-tokens-ahead-of-the-canadian-gp
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Some small relief for the Renault teams as for the first time this season none of them had to use a new unit of any type over the Monaco weekend. The McLaren Hondas continued their march towards a second half of the season filled with countless penalties, however.
I've renamed my "Ideal" line in the plot below to "Even Use", as circuit characteristics etc. can mean that the green line isn't really the optimal usage strategy. It's just there as an indication of how far ahead/behind target the manufacturers are.
I've renamed my "Ideal" line in the plot below to "Even Use", as circuit characteristics etc. can mean that the green line isn't really the optimal usage strategy. It's just there as an indication of how far ahead/behind target the manufacturers are.
They've all used their 2nd unit for this weekend so it will look more even after that, but it's definitely clear they have a big advantage. It also looks like Ferrari have installed a lot of 3rd units for the Canada weekend, so I don't really understand their usage strategy. Maybe they have some minor reliability niggles that we are not seeing manifest themselves over the race weekends.
I just noticed that at some point the FIA randomly decided to swap the order of the MGU-K and MGU-H columns in their data so those columns may be swapped in some of the data above. I'll try to fix it for the coming weeks.
Nothing grates me more than someone else mucking up my data gathering
Awesome work yet again SF
State of play after Canada:
Slightly odd usage strategy by Ferrari to use an (upgraded) 3rd engine quite soon after they introduced the second, presumably they'll have to go back to the old units later in the season. Renault seem to have managed to stop the rot to some extent, although the teams are now in complete damage limitation mode trying to take as few penalties as possible. Honda's journey to oblivion is almost complete, they used a total of 10 new units over the Canada weekend.
Meanwhile, Mercedes continue to follow the "even use" line very closely. They introduced 2nd units to all their drivers this weekend. Force India are a slight exception to the rule, with Hulkenberg already having used his 2nd units at Monaco and Perez still going strong on a lot of his first units.
Button and Verstappen share the wooden spoon for the first drivers to receive a grid penalty for using a 5th unit. There are many more to come this weekend...
Slightly odd usage strategy by Ferrari to use an (upgraded) 3rd engine quite soon after they introduced the second, presumably they'll have to go back to the old units later in the season. Renault seem to have managed to stop the rot to some extent, although the teams are now in complete damage limitation mode trying to take as few penalties as possible. Honda's journey to oblivion is almost complete, they used a total of 10 new units over the Canada weekend.
Meanwhile, Mercedes continue to follow the "even use" line very closely. They introduced 2nd units to all their drivers this weekend. Force India are a slight exception to the rule, with Hulkenberg already having used his 2nd units at Monaco and Perez still going strong on a lot of his first units.
Button and Verstappen share the wooden spoon for the first drivers to receive a grid penalty for using a 5th unit. There are many more to come this weekend...
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sushifiesta - Wonder if Ferrari engine 2 will be making an appearance for such events as Budapest and Singapore.
Yes, I assume they've decided to get the updates in as early as possible and then revert back to the old units at circuits where the penalty isn't so large. It only gives them one remaining new unit to use any further updates on in the remainder of the season though. Well, at least on the engine itself, perhaps they don't forsee any more upgrades to that and anything else they do this season will be related to the other components.
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McLaren Honda shoot way past the total allocation of 24 units (although they still have a new MGU-K, ES and CE unit left). Renault's reliability issues seem to be mostly limited to the internal combustion engine.
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Update from after the British grand prix doesn't change things very much. Hungary will probably be the last race before a lot of new units are introduced for the high power circuits of Spa and Monza. Note that I haven't bothered to adjust the Honda/McLaren percentages to reflect the "new manufacturers get an extra unit" rule.
Update from the Hungarian grand prix just continues the existing trend:
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
Belgium is getting complicated with Honda/McLaren!
It's not complicated. They're just using huge numbers of components they're technically not allowed.
More solid work TBY ... despite the Honda woes of this season I am going to see what Vegas will offer me for a Honda powered championship in 2017 ...
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