Nico Rosberg

Nico Erik Rosberg, son of Keijo "Keke" Erik Rosberg, is about to have his 100th Grand Prix meeting this weekend in Hungary.

I was about to write my "best wishes" to him in 'his' thread...but I couldn't find one...so, I figured I might as well start it off.

What is very interesting is that his father, Keke, took part in 114 Grand Prix races in his entire Formula One career, winning 5 of them - all for Williams from 1982 to 1985 - as well as a World Championship.

It's interesting in that Nico is approaching that number quickly and he's already about to finish off his 6th season in a few months...but without a win to his name...and no win in sight given the current pecking order of the cars.

Some say Nico is a great talent...while others say he hasn't fared well against quality teammates in their prime, so it's hard to judge. Mark Webber is, seemingly, his only reasonable benchmark and that was way back in his rookie season in a car that was one of the worst ones ever constructed by Williams.

What are people's thoughts on Nico Rosberg?

Regardless, Godspeed to Nico on the occassion of his 100th Grand Prix this weekend!

 

[ExtremeNinja]

What you see as obvious and a truth is only your interpretation. This is where the problem lies, RickD. You have jumped on a single indicator and are touting it as irrefutable evidence that your formed opinion is truth.

Why not simply take it as face value and stick it in your pocket until such time that there is actually a formed case for what you are flogging? You'll find less confrontation if you are not so absolute and forceful in your assertions.

Please go and start a dedicated thread on this if you want to discuss it further. You are derailing every thread you touch with this argument you are making.

 

[Fenderman]

I am perfectly happy RickD to agree to disagree but if you read back through the numerous posts on this debate you will see blatant accusations of lying and cheating liberally spattered throughout. If one is not prepared to take the statements of people like Ross Brawn and Toto Wolf as truthful on the matter then de facto they must be lying. I personally do not believe they are being less than frank. Even if it is so that we are being misled I want to see a darned sight more evidence than today. Simples.

 

[Dizzi]

Josh & Mephistopheles perhaps the car following is in dirty air & therefore loses downforce & is less efficient with the fuel, bit like battling a strong head wind in a road car will use more fuel. At lesat Brawn gave a technical reason for holding station, a refreshing change from the usual blah blah given by teams.
For what it's worth I don't think Mercedes have demoted Nico to second driver, Brawn reaction when the BBC reporter said 'Nico wasn't happy at being told to hold position was he?' was a very natural 'I'd be disappointed if he was!' (quotes not exact!)
I still think Nico has every chance of beating Lewis this year, he's shown himself to be a contender & in this instance I think it will be good for the WCC to have the team-mates vying equally. Only time will tell (& a reversal of positions).
On an aside, I'm not entirely convinced with Lewis saying he would have liked to let Nico go...then why didn't he when Nico past him?? He would soon have been in clean air again if Nico was as fast as he was saying. I suspect the fuel issue was a real issue this time for both cars by the end, did Mercedes gamble expecting some wet weather & safety cars?

 

[KekeTheKing]

All I want is to see racing drivers racing each other it isn't to much to ask from a sport that is meant to be about racing is it?

What's the point in racing if the outcome is fixed KekeTheKing

I guess I had a dream last night where comments like these had me a little flabbergasted. I was fairly certain that a lively exchange ensued....

Oh well. Nico knows what went down. He didn't like it but he knows it had absolutely nothing to do with Number 1 or 2 status. Suggestions otherwise should be met with disdain.

 

[Slyboogy]

Dizzi Rosberg was faster anyway, I'm sure he would have pulled out more than a second gap so the dirty air issue wouldn't even come in.

If Ross Brawn could further explain that reason then it might make sense, but to me right now, it's bollocks.

 

[Josh]

Dizzi Thanks, but couldn't he run a few seconds behind Nico so that he didn't have to suffer Rosberg's dirty air? Or would he then have been too close to Massa? I'm not sure how many seconds you have to run behind someone to get out of his dirty air, I thought it was 2 but I'm not sure. With Massa being so far behind it sounds like a bit of a non-reason to me.

 

[Dizzi]

I agree & I said in my post I couldn't understand why Lewis didn't just let Nico go.
Perhaps the team knows something we don't & probably never will.
Let's agree to be mystified for the time being.
Not sure I would be as patient as Nico to stay behind, team orders or not but then I'm not an F1 driver.

 

[Fenderman]

No it's quite simple Slyboogy. If Rosberg had passed Hamilton and then chased down and scrapped with the Red Bulls he would have run out of fuel. At the end of the season that would be a great tactic to clinch the title for one of the team's drivers but at such an early stage the points haul for the team is the top priority. Here are two scenarios:

S1: It's Brazil 2013. Webber, Vettel and Hamilton are in close contention for the title. The race has panned out similar to Malaysia. Rosberg has had a few DNF's in the season and is out of contention so he is fighting for his team and team-mate.

Rosberg is the hare sent to chase and scrap with the Red Bulls. In the ensuing dust up Rosberg, Webber and Vettel wear out their rubber and burn so much fuel that they have to try to conserve both. So much so that they are easy meat for the cruising Hamilton who turns up the wick for the last two or three laps. Job done, Hamilton wins championship by a couple of points.

S2: It's Malaysia 2013. Rosberg passes Hamilton, chases down the two Red Bulls, gets involved in a dust up and runs out fuel and out of the race. Hamilton has blown more fuel than expected dicing with Rosberg and runs out of fuel on the last lap, metres from the finish line. Two DNF's. It's Brazil 2013 and the Red Bull's need only to finish in the points to beat Hamilton and Mercedes to the WDC and WCC.

Are these realistic scenarios? Well, look up "The Bentley Boys". Their historic Le Mans victory in 1930 was achieved using the tactic in scenario 1. For a Bentley to Beat the Mercedes SSK the team sussed out that the Mercedes supercharger would need to be pushed to its maximum. If they could force Rudolf Carraciola (Mercedes lead driver and race pacemaker) to push all the way through the race one of two things would happen. Either he would use way too much fuel requiring an extra pit stop or he would blow the super-charger and leave him a sitting duck.

Tim Birkin played the hare and pushed Carraciola until he suffered a puncture and fell back. Sammy Davis took over the chase, pushing Carraciola hard enough that the Mercedes engine gave up and the Bentley driven by Woolf Barnato (partnered by Glen Kidston) went on to take the win.

The Bentley Boys intentionally sacrificed two of their cars to beat the Mercedes in that race but it's not something one would do at the start of a 19 race season. At least I don't think so.

Edit: By the way both Ross Brawn and Toto Woolf stated that both drivers were "short" fueled for the race.

 

[RickD]

s3: Nico overtakes Lewis, chases down and passes a Red Bull and finishes the race on the podium. Come Brazil 2013, Nico is still in the hunt.

Just as likely as your scenarios Fenderman..

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106341

Nico Rosberg said he fully understood Mercedes' request for him to hold position behind team-mate Lewis Hamilton in the Malaysian Grand Prix....
But team boss Ross Brawn asked both to back off, conserve fuel and tyres, and come home third and fourth.
Although Rosberg had urged Brawn to reconsider over the radio, after the race he said the squad's instructions had been correct.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106355?source=mostpopular

"Of course it is tough. I understand their point of view, but I also understood it in the moment," he said.
"Of course I wanted to go for it, and go for the Red Bulls and see what we could do. I don't know how far I would have got and I had to save a bit of fuel again, but nothing unusual."

Seems to me he was frustrated as
1) he thought he could chase down the Red Bulls yet was unaware if he could do so without the team asking him to save fuel later. the team then told him and he says he now understands why he wasn't allowed to pass.
2) he thought Hamilton was holding him up - again Brawn clarified by saying that Hamilton could have gone much faster were it not for the fuel saving. He wasn't being held behind simply because he wasn't allowed to pass Hamilton.
The point being forgotten here, albeit not by everyone, is that if Rosberg had made his previous passing attempts stick, he would have been ahead on merit anyway and the whole point would have been moot anyway. If Mercedes didn't want Rosberg passing, or threatening to pass Hamilton they would have called it off as soon as those moves began, not later on - bearing in mind Hamilton was fuel saving from lap 25 onwards.

 

[Fenderman]

So true RickD , as are any number of possible worse case scenarios. The fact is Ross Brawn decided on a low risk play as opposed to a gamble. Second race of the season? Take the bag full of points and live to fight another day. It's the art of war.

 

[Vortex]

Still cant see what was so risky about letting Rosberg through though.

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Still cant see what was so risky about letting Rosberg through though.

Brawn's reply:

"In my judgement, the lowest risk solution was for the drivers to hold station," Brawn told AUTOSPORT
"Nico may have got past Lewis, but on the fuel management programme that both drivers were running, there was no opportunity to progress further or challenge the front two cars.
"A third and fourth place finish was an excellent result for the team and I was not prepared to risk it.
"When I spoke to the team afterwards, I used the analogy of a man in the desert who had found a cup of water - and we wanted to make sure that we didn't spill a single drop."

He also said Hamilton asked him the same thing after the race and:

Brawn responded by making it clear that all he asked of his drivers was that they obeyed any instructions coming from the pit wall.
"That conversation happened after the race during our engineering briefing, when I said to both drivers that I expect them to respect the decisions made on the pit wall and to act in the best interests of the team," he said.
"They did exactly that on Sunday afternoon and I am very pleased with the mature and considered approach shown by both Nico and Lewis."

http://t.co/aAQ9Zw39R6

 

[Vortex]

Still doesnt answer what was so risky about letting Rosberg through though, not letting them fight, letting him through.

 

[Fenderman]

Brawn saw something and that's all that matters whether it was technical, tactical or just a matter of ensuring a tight ship. One thing is clear and that is where the authority lies at least while he remains at Mercedes.

 

[Brogan]

Still doesnt answer what was so risky about letting Rosberg through though, not letting them fight, letting him through.

According to Brawn they were both fuel saving so letting Rosberg through to go faster could have resulted in him running out of fuel I suppose

In which case, if Rosberg was going to be let through only to sit one or two seconds in front of Hamilton when what was the point?

 

[Fenderman]

And lest we forget Lewis fought for and defended his place on merit.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I'm prepared to give them them the benefit of the doubt for now we shall see in the future, I still don't like team orders though....

I still reckon that a car in the slipstream will save more fuel than a car creating the slipstream though....

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Brawn said he made the decision in the best interests of the team. The team knew Nico didn't have enough fuel to catch the Red Bulls and knew they would score the same amount of points regardless of Rosberg being let through.
Surely it's easier to believe what Brawn, Wolff, Hamilton and Rosberg have actually said than it is to believe that all 4 have colluded together to concoct one big lie to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Do we really think Keke Rosberg would sit back and allow that to happen, knowing that Nico is in the last year of his contract?
Bit of a fuss about nothing really.

 

[Titch]

The Mercedes team orders are slightly obscure to say the least..