Head To Head Nico Rosberg vs Lewis Hamilton

[Grizzly]

A little about each others!

 

[Incubus]

I think it's just experience. The best drivers' race-craft only improves over the years. Inate talent and speed is something they're born with. Knowing how and when to push hard and when to look after tyres is something they learn through experience. The first stint in Japan was textbook stuff. Having failed to take the lead at the start Hamilton positioned himself a couple of seconds behind Nico and patiently observed him wear his rear tyres off. Then pounced later on.

 

[Brogan]

Hamilton has always preferred a car which oversteers so has years of experience of driving in that manner and having to make sure his tyres don't get chewed up after a few laps.

With the new turbo engines which deliver power in a far less gradual manner and less downforce due to the ban on EBD, perhaps that is what is making the difference?

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Brogan Although Hamilton has said he is well versed with cars that have a tendency to oversteer he actually prefers a car with a solid rear end.

"The one I'm driving right now. I have always needed a car with good rear grip. I don't mind if I have to struggle with the front because you can catch that up. But I've always wanted to make sure I have plenty of rear grip and I've rarely had that before. Now, I've finally got a 'rear-ended' car and it's driving into understeer, and you have to work around it with mechanical balance.

"I know people have this impression of me as a driver who likes to dance the rear end out, but that's just the way my cars have been. I'm quite comfortable being on the edge and having to balance it when it looks 'oversteery'.

"That's what I had to do with my aggressive style to get the car as far up as possible. Driving in that way enables me to make that kind of car shine more than it would do if I drove it normally. But I prefer the car like the Mercedes is now."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22209168

 

[Brogan]

Maybe it's set up then as I don't remember his team mates having as much oversteer in the same car.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

The way to combat understeer is to induce oversteer and you can only make that work and still be fast if you have confidence in the rear end. You are essentially purposely breaking traction at the rear with the faith that you can regain it in a controlled way.

 

[snowy]

Refreshing my mind about the different driving styles it occurs to me that Nico is setting up the car and Lewis is just plugging in that set up. Lewis' reactive style gives him the facility to work around an understeery, nuetral or oversteery car. For Nico a car that deviates from his desired set up is just unpredictable but for Lewis that is just another behaviour he will get his head round.

When Jenson joined McLaren all the talk was about how different their styles were and how they would cope with designing a car to suit both. In the end they made a simple choice to design the car to suit Jenson and for Lewis to adapt to it!

 

[The Pits]

http://atlasf1.autosport.com/96/can/waller2.html

An older doc, but it is far more complex than "Inducing oversteer" Indeed, an understeering car which is then induced to oversteer will be horrendous to drive.

If I may, Lewis' strength is being able to feel the car better than most, and be able to make those instinctive adjustments. A car with a loose rear end for example can be controlled by a delicate foot and sensitive steering inputs, but you have to feel how much lock to apply and how much throttle, few do that better than Lewis. This better plays to his strengths when the rear is more planted, as he is then able to be quicker on the throttle out of the corners.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

...which they had to u-turn on and probably cost them a run at the championship.

 

[The Pits]

When Jenson joined McLaren all the talk was about how different their styles were and how they would cope with designing a car to suit both. In the end they made a simple choice to design the car to suit Jenson and for Lewis to adapt to it!

Did I miss something?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

It appears so.

 

[The Pits]

I thought that poor pit stops and reliability cost them a championship?

Well, like you say, I am clearly missing all the press reports etc that were made at the time. And off topic for this thread anyway.

 

[Incubus]

I don't really get all this stuff about drivers who prefer oversteer or understeer because all drivers try to set-up their cars to be as neutral as possible. In practice perfect balance doesn't exist since each corner is different so trying to achieve a balance that maximises pace around the lap at any track is necessarily a question of compromise.

It's just that some drivers cope better with understeer and others with oversteer. At the end of the day the fastest way to go through each corner is through uniform four-wheel drift. I'm sure any driver when asked what their idea of a car with perfect balance would be their answer would be "neutral". Then when they achieve a good balance they can express their driving styles efficiently, induce a touch of oversteer in hairpins or a slight touch of understeer in fast bends.

Chronic understeer or oversteer is different from all that. When drivers report that it basically means the car's a bit crap and fundamentally unbalanced even with optimum set-up.

 

[marksawatsky]

The rule of thumb is with oversteer, brake earlier and get on the gas earlier and with understeer, brake later. Each has it's advantages but every driver has a preference that suits his/her driving style better and they will do better if they are happy with the balance. That being said, the "ideal" set up for a particular track could make a car have a slightly different balance than what a driver prefers, but these guys are good enough to adapt, some are just better at it than others.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Not necessarily true Incubus. Sometimes the fastest way through a corner is fully sideways, although that may not contribute to being the fastest way through a race. Basically, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I am absolutely useless with understeer, but give me an oversteery kart and I will drive it as fast as a planted one.

Edit: (within reason)

 

[Incubus]

Well yes but the wheelbase of an F1 car is about 6 times that of a kart. I used to be a karter for an all-too-brief period and I certainly did notice the fastest way to go through pretty much every corner is through oversteer but I wouldn't compare the experience with driving an F1 car!

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Most F1 drivers will tell you that there first experience in an F1 car is the shock of the speed. Once they have got past that, it's like a big kart. I remember an interview with Lewis saying exactly that. Obviously, I cannot say what it is like to drive an F1 car from first hand experience, though, so I can only take the word of those that can. Watching F1 karts on circuit, they certainly seem to have very similar handling characteristics.

 

[Lewywo4]

As big a blow at being overtaken was how rapidly Hamilton pulled away once he had. That must have been a real punch in the stomach.

I was also suprised how Hamilton was able to pull away from Rosberg under those wet conditons, which Lewis described as reminding of Silverstone in 2008. The pass that Lewis made into turn one on Rosberg, sort of reminded of Raikkonen'is famous last lap pass on Fisichella, in the same turn at Suzuka in 2005.

 

[marksawatsky]

Most F1 drivers will tell you that there first experience in an F1 car is the shock of the speed. Once they have got past that, it's like a big kart. I remember an interview with Lewis saying exactly that. Obviously, I cannot say what it is like to drive an F1 car from first hand experience, though, so I can only take the word of those that can. Watching F1 karts on circuit, they certainly seem to have very similar handling characteristics.

The quickest way around our local kart track is with oversteer because it keeps the engine rpms up. One of our local drivers who was very quick (not the quickest, however) has a very tidy, non-sliding style of driving, and moved to Formula Atlantic this year and won the Championship. Why? His style of driving lends itself very well to open wheeled race cars with aerodynamics, just like an F1 car. This makes me think that a Formula 1 car is a lot like a kart, but is probably quickest when driven like a Formula 1 car, not like a kart.

 

[sushifiesta]

Not that it means anything but under the infamous medals system Lewis would have won the championship today.