Head To Head Nico Rosberg vs Lewis Hamilton
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snowy
Champion Elect
Lewis makes staggeringly good start in Belgium from second on the grid, followed by the worst start of the season due to technical gremlin from pole in Monza... There has got to be a saboteur in the Mercedes garage. It's either that or Lewis's luck is defying all the laws of probability! Even Douglas Adams would be amazed by Lewis's misfortune this season.
LifeW12
Podium Finisher
Reminds me of Prost vs. Lauda in 1984.
Lewis made a mistake in Q3, so it doesn't count.
Both cars have to start at the front and not have any issues during the race.
Aren't we forgetting Austria?
Lewis made a mistake in Q3, so it doesn't count.
Both cars have to start at the front and not have any issues during the race.
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
Ok then, Hamilton hasn't beaten Rosberg all season then either.
After all, on the occasions when Hamilton has finished ahead of Rosberg, it's only because Rosberg made the mistake of not driving faster......
After all, on the occasions when Hamilton has finished ahead of Rosberg, it's only because Rosberg made the mistake of not driving faster......
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No, it's only because Hamilton didn't make the mistake of slowing down so that Rosberg could overtake him, the dirty cheat!
Wombcat
Podium Finisher
If mistakes don't count, then Hamilton hasn't beaten Rosberg in the race either. It was because of Rosbergs' mistakes that he was bale to take the lead. Although Rosberg had taken the lead, because Hamiltons' bad start, so that doesn't count either.
Tuscan1969
Podium Finisher
First off I am a Hamilton fan but I am trying to be even handed.....
So lets keep it simple -
In a race that both Ham and Ros have finished (irrespective of qualifying gremlins or start line misfortunes) I think its 6-3 in favour of Lewis.
Lewis has 6 wins to 4 overall ; in the 3 races where one has finished and the other has not Lewis won one (UK) and Nico came second (in both Canada and Belgium).
Reading stats like that its hard to imagine how Lewis is behind but facts are facts and he is.
Nico can't be blamed for the bad luck that has come Lewis's way (including "that" puncture ; nb although I do believe he deliberately did not avoid a collision I can't see how he could know he'd come out of it in better shape than Lewis - he could have needed a new nose and Lewis could have scampered away up the road and THATS why I think he was made to apologise by Merc because the action/inaction was just stupid and that is certainly not what they would expect of Nico).
Nevertheless on a simple head to head basis it seems to me pretty clear that Lewis has the upper hand and Nico will know that (if they both finish) Lewis is likely to be ahead.....
So as I see it unless LH has another DNF the pressure will build on Nico and he will either break and make a big mistake somewhere or will have another point proving moment and a collision will result....and who knows who will come out of that best....
Having said all the above I hope there are no such coming together's and we get proper wheel to wheel action.
So lets keep it simple -
In a race that both Ham and Ros have finished (irrespective of qualifying gremlins or start line misfortunes) I think its 6-3 in favour of Lewis.
Lewis has 6 wins to 4 overall ; in the 3 races where one has finished and the other has not Lewis won one (UK) and Nico came second (in both Canada and Belgium).
Reading stats like that its hard to imagine how Lewis is behind but facts are facts and he is.
Nico can't be blamed for the bad luck that has come Lewis's way (including "that" puncture ; nb although I do believe he deliberately did not avoid a collision I can't see how he could know he'd come out of it in better shape than Lewis - he could have needed a new nose and Lewis could have scampered away up the road and THATS why I think he was made to apologise by Merc because the action/inaction was just stupid and that is certainly not what they would expect of Nico).
Nevertheless on a simple head to head basis it seems to me pretty clear that Lewis has the upper hand and Nico will know that (if they both finish) Lewis is likely to be ahead.....
So as I see it unless LH has another DNF the pressure will build on Nico and he will either break and make a big mistake somewhere or will have another point proving moment and a collision will result....and who knows who will come out of that best....
Having said all the above I hope there are no such coming together's and we get proper wheel to wheel action.
Well, Nico actually has the upper hand with a 22 point advantage but knowing all it takes is a Silverstone result to put Lewis in the lead.
And the stats do look odd. Not as odd as a certain Mr Rosberg's 1982 World Championship though if you look at his race wins.
There is always one track I think of that Rosberg is supremely quick at. It just so happens to be the next race, so this could be very interesting indeed!
And the stats do look odd. Not as odd as a certain Mr Rosberg's 1982 World Championship though if you look at his race wins.
There is always one track I think of that Rosberg is supremely quick at. It just so happens to be the next race, so this could be very interesting indeed!
Wombcat
Podium Finisher
I totally agree that Hamilton had the upper hand if they both finished, but I think it's silly to discount results, because one of them made a mistake in qualifying (or even in the race). That's part of racing, and that was the point of my last post..
In the end the WDC is not about who is the fastest racer, but who gets the most points. Who is the fastest will only lead to endless discussions. Which will get us through the winter of course.
I find it amusing how a lot of Hamilton fans always seem to point out that the other driver in his team is kinda rubbish (or not nearly as good). Button was no good, but still he got about as much wins and points in his three years at McLaren as Hamilton.
Rosberg is not a fast driver, but still he beats Hamilton in qualifying, and is about the same in wins and points in their year and a half at Mercedes.
In my book that would mean that Hamilton is not so good either.
I think Rosberg is one of the more underrated drivers. He's really quick in qualifying. Is generally a solid driver in the race. But he's not so decisive in fights (when he needs to pass the driver in front of him).
Hamilton is very quick. Has an attractive driving style, but sometimes gets carried away and then has a tendency to bully himself past another driver (let's call that Sennastyle
).
I liked both of them at the beginning of the year, but frankly their constant bickering has gotten me a bit tired of them and I would like it a lot if Ricciardo steals the WDC away from them. And that's while I really don't like RBR.
In the end the WDC is not about who is the fastest racer, but who gets the most points. Who is the fastest will only lead to endless discussions. Which will get us through the winter of course.
I find it amusing how a lot of Hamilton fans always seem to point out that the other driver in his team is kinda rubbish (or not nearly as good). Button was no good, but still he got about as much wins and points in his three years at McLaren as Hamilton.
Rosberg is not a fast driver, but still he beats Hamilton in qualifying, and is about the same in wins and points in their year and a half at Mercedes.
In my book that would mean that Hamilton is not so good either.
I think Rosberg is one of the more underrated drivers. He's really quick in qualifying. Is generally a solid driver in the race. But he's not so decisive in fights (when he needs to pass the driver in front of him).
Hamilton is very quick. Has an attractive driving style, but sometimes gets carried away and then has a tendency to bully himself past another driver (let's call that Sennastyle
).I liked both of them at the beginning of the year, but frankly their constant bickering has gotten me a bit tired of them and I would like it a lot if Ricciardo steals the WDC away from them. And that's while I really don't like RBR.
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Tuscan1969
Podium Finisher
Agreed Wombcat - points is points is points. And points make prizes.
What I was trying to get to was an idea of where Nico's head is at vis a vis his competition with Lewis and to use my amazing crystal ball skills to forecast how this would play out (assuming no more DNF's for either of them).
I happen to agree that Rosberg is underrated. I think he has been amazingly consistent this year so far and he could still easily finish as the Champ. Likewise Button was (and is) no fool and Alonso was (and is) probably the most complete driver on the circuit. I dont like to rubbish any of the drivers out there cause sure as shit I could not do what they do, but it does not stop me having favourites.
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Dizzi
Podium Finisher
I think only a fool would underestimate Rosberg & there's not many fools at a F1 circuit.
Reliability of machinery has been one of the few constants in formula 1 since it began & even in today's hi-tec times luck plays a part, I for one have never subscribed to the view 'the team is screwing driver X' as it's counter-productive to their goal.
I'm rather hoping the rest of the season will be pretty even but more importantly clean.
Although I abhor the idea of double points for the last race I do hope it's that close at the end.
Reliability of machinery has been one of the few constants in formula 1 since it began & even in today's hi-tec times luck plays a part, I for one have never subscribed to the view 'the team is screwing driver X' as it's counter-productive to their goal.
I'm rather hoping the rest of the season will be pretty even but more importantly clean.
Although I abhor the idea of double points for the last race I do hope it's that close at the end.
Wombcat
Podium Finisher
Tuscan1969 Vis-a-vis
Rosberg is a bit quicker in qualifying than Hamilton.
Hamilton is a bit better in the race, and should have had the upper hand if he hadn't encoutered more gremlims. But he has, and is behind. Without more gremlims, I expect Rosberg to become WDC. As you said, it's 6-3 in race were both finish. I would expect that to remain the rest of the season, or there-abouts. If that trend continues, Rosberg will most likely accumulate enough points to become WDC. The double pointer could be the decider though.
If Rosberg encouters a gremlin (or more than Hamilton), Hamilton should be able to get the championship. If Hamilton gets another gremlin (or more than Rosberg), he's screwed.
I'd be surprised though if the Mercedes boys finish all of the remaining races. I also expect Red Bull (more accurately: Ricciardo) to spoil the party one or two times, especially if Mercedes has a mechanical problem. Which could be decisive, because finishing 2nd and 3rd would mean that Hamilton wouold gain lees (if he finishes in front of Rosberg).
Rosberg is a bit quicker in qualifying than Hamilton.
Hamilton is a bit better in the race, and should have had the upper hand if he hadn't encoutered more gremlims. But he has, and is behind. Without more gremlims, I expect Rosberg to become WDC. As you said, it's 6-3 in race were both finish. I would expect that to remain the rest of the season, or there-abouts. If that trend continues, Rosberg will most likely accumulate enough points to become WDC. The double pointer could be the decider though.
If Rosberg encouters a gremlin (or more than Hamilton), Hamilton should be able to get the championship. If Hamilton gets another gremlin (or more than Rosberg), he's screwed.
I'd be surprised though if the Mercedes boys finish all of the remaining races. I also expect Red Bull (more accurately: Ricciardo) to spoil the party one or two times, especially if Mercedes has a mechanical problem. Which could be decisive, because finishing 2nd and 3rd would mean that Hamilton wouold gain lees (if he finishes in front of Rosberg).
Isn't it true that Lewis is the more likely of the two to suffer the first grid penalty for exceeding the engine use limits, which won't help his cause any considering he is already on the back foot points wise...
I believe it is a 10 place grid penalty for an ICE change, and the reason I asked is because Crofty said on Sunday that Lewis has to win all of the remaining races if Rosberg is second or was it that he Lewis couldn't afford for Rosberg to win another race, anyway what I mean is if an engine change arises it isn't going be be good for him.
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Mephistopheles - It is irrelevant who gets first or second engine penalty, it is imperative that no-one gets one at Abu Dhabi.
Tuscan1969
Podium Finisher
In Italy did Merc not run Lewis's fire damaged engine in practice then change it for the race thus keeping race engine on lower miles and the fire damaged one for non-critical running?????
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