Monaco - The Marmite Poll

[Enja]

Monaco actually states clearly and concisely "chance your arm and I'll bite it off!"

...and yet Montreal and Melbourne have higher rates of driver-related retirements!

Simple - Melbourne is so early in the season.

Montreal, though? That's odd. People cite it as a good overtaking circuit - it's not. But a great track nonetheless.

On topic :

I love Monaco. I love the setting, I like the glamour, I don't like the ridiculous prices and some of the more sickly uses of money. I love the cars going through something the size of a drainpipe, I love the risk, the danger and the precision needed to succeed. I love the traffic in qualifying, I love the hair-raising corners, I just love the thrill of seeing cars millimetres away from the barriers.

In a safety-first calendar of car park run offs and wide, forgiving tracks, Monaco is a superb tonic to what I see as blights in a GP season. Most of the drivers love the challenge and it's unforgiving nature - they thrive on it.

Of course, the races are rarely exciting in typical circumstances but to say it doesn't deserve to be on the calendar for that reason is misguided : there are other circuits that should provide overtaking, if we had more at some of the new, 'overtake friendly' tracks perhaps people wouldn't mind the one-off nature of Monaco.

It's a matter of perspective and once you realise just how incredible those drivers are in Monaco and that it is perhaps the last challenging circuit in F1, I find most people come to the conclusion - or realisation - that it is a very, very special place and 1 weekend a season should be fair sacrifice for what is one of the most thrilling circuits to drive in the world.

 

[snowy]

Simple - Melbourne is so early in the season.

Montreal, though? That's odd. People cite it as a good overtaking circuit - it's not. But a great track nonetheless.

The Wall of Champions?

 

[Speshal]

It's probably been said before but I love Monaco.

Personally I don't view it as a strict F1 race, ever since I was a wee lad I've always considered it more like a special stage, a true test of man and machine vs circuit rather than each other, oh there have been some classic races there and the weather can always spring a surprise but it always seems to me that the drivers value a Monaco GP win a little bit more then the points value.

 

[teabagyokel]

perhaps the last challenging circuit in F1

Sorry, but I consider that the challenge is to simply keep concentration. Where actual racing is concerned it is the least challenging circuit for the incumbent of a position.

You keep saying if you make a mistake around Monaco you're in the barrier - I saw at least 3 serious mistakes in Q1 that didn't result in barriers, it is not actually that unforgiving.

Personally I don't view it as a strict F1 race

I find it a sad indictment of a track that for it to be enjoyed you have to consider it not strictly an F1 race! Would the same rationale work for Valencia or Singapore?

I know I'm moving against a groundswell of opinion here, but am I the only one who thinks that it has

the same layout as 1929

doesn't imply tradition but implies it is an antique. There are plenty of things we did in 1929 that we don't do now!

There's also the thing that 'if you watch one F1 race a year, its Monaco'. So F1 wants its casual viewers to view it at its boringest. Surely a sport trying to sell itself to casuals would put the interesting stuff to the forefront rather than the narcaleptic stuff.

Don't get it! And I never will...

 

[Brogan]

I'm with you TBY.

I can see the attraction and the challenge for the drivers but as a "spectacle" and as far as racing against the other drivers goes it falls far short.

 

[Enja]

perhaps the last challenging circuit in F1

Sorry, but I consider that the challenge is to simply keep concentration. Where actual racing is concerned it is the least challenging circuit for the incumbent of a position.

You keep saying if you make a mistake around Monaco you're in the barrier - I saw at least 3 serious mistakes in Q1 that didn't result in barriers, it is not actually that unforgiving.

I can understand your opinion - really, I can, and I've been there myself.

It is very, very hard for me to put into words what I feel about motor racing. I haven't been interested in it for that long, granted. But it is something that has ignited my passion for these past few years. This might sound pompous or pretentious but it I find there is something intensely deep and almost spiritual about racing. Within a cockpit or behind the wheel it is a place, not only physically, but mentally, that as a driver these people we watch can thrive and do the things they do. I can admire that. The immortal words of Senna are inspirational to me, despite never having lived through his life or his emotions. It is about a finite point where talent, physics, and willingness to perform converge and create a moment in time that may never be reached again, where the philosophical limit is exceeded and upon a knife edge of success and failure. A great racing driver's greatest talent is innate, developed within ; the ability to place their performance on that knife edge and succeed. Failure awaits those who can't - I believe this is why certain racers can only get so far in their careers, at any given moment, that divide between success and failure is a microcosm of a life, a career. Succeed, and the rewards - in lap time - follow. Continue to succeed, and to find that convergence at every moment that is demanded of you, and you can have more success - in a race, over a season, over a career.

It is that request to find a convergence, a meeting point between the different factors of a race, a track, a car, that makes Monaco so special to me. At every corner, and every track, there are a set of circumstances that demand certain abilities from a driver. But at Monaco, those circumstances are heightened by a sense of risk. You say that it is not actually that unforgiving - I still say the contrary. Respective to the current calendar, then yes, it is unforgiving. I saw Alonso, arguably the best driver of his generation, wreck an entire weekend. Last year we saw Hamilton, again, one of the best of his generation, make an error which scuppered his race weekend. To say it is not unforgiving is wrong, unless your context of unforgiving is a track where the armcos follow the entire length of the track with no run off.

You say that

... I consider that the challenge is to simply keep concentration. Where actual racing is concerned it is the least challenging circuit for the incumbent of a position.

without regard to the era we live in. It is not an era of close racing where the focus is on keeping someone behind you. The aerodynamics do that for you. It is not as if we get races where we get "actual racing" every other week. And what is "actual racing"? A 100m sprint is "actual racing" - and it is largely the challenge of "simply keeping concentration". The challenge of being able to isolate yourself from the environment around you, to avoid the subtle distractions and diversions of the world, to focus, solely, entirely, on your driving. Concentration is a challenge. It is the biggest challenge of every dry race in Formula 1 right now. The focus has shifted from "actual racing" to preservation, protection, consistency - in a word, concentration. Monaco is, in my opinion, one of the last true challenges of concentration. If concentration isn't a challenge to you, your beef is not with the tracks but purely with the current formula for not providing you with "actual racing". There are other series where you can find your pocket of racing spiritualism. I know we all have a pretty low view of the current Formula 1 right now. But I'm an optimist - I take what is on offer, and what is on offer is, in my opinion, a very tough circuit whose conquerers deserve admiration, and with that in mind, I'll thoroughly enjoy the Monaco GP for what it is.

 

[teabagyokel]

But I'm an optimist - I take what is on offer, and what is on offer is, in my opinion, a very tough circuit whose conquerers deserve admiration, and with that in mind, I'll thoroughly enjoy the Monaco GP for what it is.

I am not an optimist, I feel that questions should be asked of all things and not blithely accepted as 'traditional'.

The Alonso/Hamilton 'one kill' mistakes both, I admit, show an unforgiving nature, but it is not quite as unique as has been claimed. We saw a few examples of something similar in Japan, for example, afflicting Mark Webber.

Concentration is a challenge. It is the biggest challenge of every dry race in Formula 1 right now.

Yes, but it is my hope that it shouldn't be the biggest challenge. There are tenuous signs that overtaking and indeed anti-overtaking, battling in other words, might be returning to F1, but really there have been occasions where the very nature of Monaco has allowed a far inferior driver/team combo to prevail over a more deserving winner (Trulli/Button 2004 being a good example.)

I personally don't like tight street circuits. I don't like Monaco, I dispise Valencia and I'm not enamoured with Singapore. I just feel that the stick shouldn't be so large that the carrot just isn't worth the risk.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree, because I'll (hopefully) be back here in 2011 posting the same thing, and you'll be rebuking me equally.

I just hope that nothing serious has to happen before Monaco is removed.

 

[Brogan]

I just hope that nothing serious has to happen before Monaco is removed.

Ironically, even though Monaco doesn't actually pay to host an F1 GP (as far as I know), I doubt it will ever be removed from the calendar.

 

[Sakari]

I just hope that nothing serious has to happen before Monaco is removed.

Ironically, even though Monaco doesn't actually pay to host an F1 GP (as far as I know), I doubt it will ever be removed from the calendar.

Hope so... maybe my fav circuit. Not much overtaking, but has to be the most difficult race out there.

 

[snowy]

You have to love Monaco! The marshalling and the cranes are second to none:

 

[cider_and_toast]

Missed this poll 'cause I was on my Holls but FYI, I would have said Of course.

 

[Bullfrog]

If I was drawing up the calendar I would definitely keep it in. As has been mentioned it's many drivers favourite circuit and offers a unique challenge (or should do, as I'll get to in a minute) and after all the F1 World Championship should be a test of all circuit types. What I would get rid of in an instant are the Monaco wannabe clones hosted in cities that just seem to want the glamour or novelty of an F1 race around their streets. I'm looking at you Valencia and Singapore! Monaco is a bit special because of it's narrow, winding streets and unforgiving barriers; these new street circuits remove a lot of the challenge by being almost normal tracks with plenty of forgiving runoff areas. Granted history adds it's own little magic to Monaco (I can't watch two cars going up the hill towards casino without remembering Mansell diving around behind Senna) but I can't imagine ever being very nostalgic about Massa going into the barrier at Singapore, Rosberg not making the pit exit or.... anything vaguely interesting happening at Valencia. Also we've heard plenty over the last few years about challenging the driver, indeed many driver aides have now been removed and along with the refuelling ban we now see more of an emphasis on driver skill. Monaco is pretty much the only track where driver skill can count for more than the quality of your car, you only have to look at Kubica this season lapping as fast or faster than cars that at any other track would have been well in front of him, do we really want to remove a track that gives a driver the opportunity to outclass his own machinery?

You couldn't and wouldn't host the first Monaco GP today but I think it's unique challenge should be what secures it's place on the calendar (for the record the fact that it's a mahoosive jolly for sponsors and shiny tosspots from the telly should not even be a consideration).

 

[snowy]

Well said and welcome to Clip the Apex Bullfrog.

 

[Brogan]

My views on Monaco are well known ( ) but I've probably been overly harsh on it.

Yes it is the ultimate test of driver skill and there is a lot of history so on those counts alone it beats any other current street circuit hands down.

Interestingly, the new Korean circuit is also classed as a street circuit so Monaco might have some competition

 

[snowy]

F1 at Macau is what I really want to see.

 

[FB]

Wasn't sure whether to put this here or start a new thread but Pitpass is reporting that Bernie has Monaco in his sights as one of the races to drop in favour of Russia and/or India for a 20 race season. The reason is, unsurprisingly, money as he doesn't make anything out of Monaco.

Probably just a bluff on his part to get the organiser in Monte Carlo to cough up some cash but it goes to show that nothing is sacred in Bernie's eyes.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I can't stand it!

That horrible brown, gooey, stinky stuff I mean.

But Monaco, I love it! For all the reasons Bullfrog and Snowy have given.

Why does every circuit on the calendar need to be the same? Surely the best test to determine the champion driver over a whole season is to have a variety of tracks with a variety of characteristics. Monaco is unique; yes, in some ways it is an anachronism, but it is still an enormous challenge to the drivers and deserves to remain part of the calendar.

Just ask any F1 driver which race he would most like to win, apart from their home race, if they have one; I am sure they would all say Monte Carlo.

 

[TK421W]

im not a fan of monaco. Yes, its a great test of driver skill etc, but i dislike the way that their is no overtaking under normal conditions and is generally just a procession. I understand and accept the history, but to be honest, when i occasionally play GP3, its the one race i really, really cant be bothered with as i find it boring and tedious.

The drivers love it, but i think most of them like Valencia aswell (quite why, i have no idea). I also really dont like the way that it has 'inspired' newer race 'tracks' (such as valencia).

Probably going to get lynched for being of this opinion, but hey: i wouldnt miss monaco anymore than i would miss valencia.

 

[Brogan]

Missed this poll 'cause I was on my Holls but FYI, I would have said Of course.

I took the liberty of reopening the poll to allow others to vote as it originally only ran for 4 days - hope that's OK TBY?

 

[RickD]

I don't mind it, not the most exciting race on the calendar, but still beats quite a few other circuits in terms of racing (including both Spanish GPs).

Wasn't there talk of extending the circuit last year? I'm sure I remember seeing it and the plans..