Monaco - The Marmite Poll

[teabagyokel]

It has been commented on many times recently how you either love or hate Monaco. So lets see how much Clip the Apex voters support the Grand Prix.

I'm of the position that the Monaco GP is a total anachronism, and whilst I'm not against the idea of less than perfect facilities for teams (I support Interlagos, Montreal etc.), my judgement is that the circuit is unsuitable for racing; indeed that it makes racing impossible. I would not shed any tears if Monaco joined the scrapheap.

These views have been aired before, so I feel this is a good occasion to correlate them into one single thread.

 

[FB]

The only reason I can see for keeping Monaco on the calender is for photogenic reasons. My wife bought me a "Photographic Portrait of Monaco" for crimble a couple of years ago and the cars against the back drop of houses, the sea and palm trees look fabulous - cr#p race though year after year (except 1982)

 

[Brogan]

I put a poll on the home page a few days ago on this very subject and so far the overwhelming majority seem to be in favour of Monaco staying on the calendar.

I personally think it's as about as unsuitable as you can get for an F1 circuit and should have been dropped years ago.

 

[snowy]

From the point of view of overtaking and of catching an F1 car at full chat it is clearly not spectacular. It is however a spectacle and a very worthy test of an F1 driver.

Having simulated racing round Monaco many times in rFactor and GTR2 I can say that whilst it may not appear to be particularly fast for the spectator it feels very fast for the driver. Because of the extra downforce and total optimisation for corner speed and acceleration it is a very different experience and set of challenges.

You ask any of the F1 drivers who have ever been quick at Monaco if it is fit for F1 you will get a resounding yes. And in this age of penalty free circuits with run offs at every turn, Monaco actually states clearly and concisely: "chance your arm and I'll bite it off!"

 

[teabagyokel]

Monaco actually states clearly and concisely "chance your arm and I'll bite it off!"

...and yet Montreal and Melbourne have higher rates of driver-related retirements!

 

[snowy]

Some drivers are a lot, braver than others, stupider than others, talented than others, etc, etc...

 

[Brogan]

I would agree that it's probably one of the ultimate tests for an F1 driver in the sense that they have to do 78 flawless laps otherwise it's game over.

However, how many times have we seen a slower driver able to fend off rivals for lap after lap simply because there are no or very few passing opportunities?
Knowing that the car behind can't pass is just as unexciting as races which are processional for other reasons.

 

[snowy]

Trully trains aside, it often takes a very skilled driver to avoid "putting it in the wall" when under pressure, and we have seen some heroic defending in the past, not least Senna vs Mansell in 92.

 

[Brogan]

Or Jarno Trulli keeping ahead of Jenson Button in 2004...

Just to add, the fact that every year there is some stupid diamond related marketing event with with a diamond embedded in the nose cone of a car or on a driver's helmet sums up what's wrong with Monaco for me.

It's more of a function on the rich people's social calendar than an F1 race.

 

[siffert_fan]

Monaco is unlikely to ever vanish from the calendar since it is the primary locale that representatives of the big sponsors all go to. No surprise, really, as they all want to mingle with the "beautiful people" rather than with true fans, such as ourselves, whom they view as the "legions of the great unwashed".

Snowy is correct, however, when he points out that it is one of the few venues where driver errors have consequences, so precision is at a premium. Unfortunately, that fact alone argues against risk-taking and so leads to processional races.

However,it does, on rare occasions , have its moments. I was there in 1970 and was treated to the classic Rindt pursuit of Brabham, where the unthinkable happened and Black Jack folded under the pressure and put it in the barriers on the last corner, handing the race to Rindt! Finishes like that can keep an event on the calendar for years in hopeful anticipation of another such occurrence. Maybe this year?

 

[Brogan]

I posted it in the other thread, but here it is again just for you siffert_fan

 

[siffert_fan]

Thanks for the clip, Bro. What memories it bings back!


It also reminded me of how beautiful the Lotus 49 was, even in the less-than-lovely Gold Leaf livery. Makes today's cars look hideous by comparison.

 

[snowy]

Lewis Hamilton describes what it is like for the driver round Monte Carlo, and leaves one in no doubt he really likes this race and it's the best place to win: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8681428.stm

 

[Matthew Little]

It should stay on the Formula 1 calendar. It's got character(something a lot of tracks these days lack........) and having been on the calendar as long as it has, it's got a legacy that, in this increasingly sterile environment F1 operates it, you need tracks like this to balance out a lot of the other circuits that, quite frankly, have no soul and, to quote something motorsports journalist Gordon Kirby once said, are so sterile that the tracks could double as hospital operating rooms."

Now if they would just keep it on the same weekend as the Indianapolis 500...................

 

[slickskid]

As it happens i'm quite partial to marmite and thus by the same token for everything that just doesn't Suit Monaco to a modern F1 race it is largely swept aside in my mind, it usually turns up the unexpected and remains thoroughly entertaining. to Monaco from me.

 

[Galahad]

Nothing much to add, really. Fewer circuits these days really punish a driving error, so perhaps having Monaco on the calendar is more important than ever.

 

[teabagyokel]

thew masses of playstation generation dont care about the number of passes, its the crashes and a few leadership changes and they could very well be satisfied.

I think, with the non-PSG people on this forum largely supporting Monaco for "punishing errors" that this takes on a new light...

Why are we conducting an Overtaking Analysis of the best tracks in F1, and then continuing to hold that a track which averages 9.5 since 1983 and is one of only three tracks with a big fat zero in a race (2003, the other two are Indy 2005 and Valencia last year) is the 'jewel in the crown'. I tend to feel the jewel in the crown shouldn't shine less brightly than the gold.

The new Hockenheim has an average overtaking rate way above 9.5 and we're all supposed to hate that!

 

[Brogan]

Indeed.

Monaco is beaten only by Catalunya, Marina Bay, Valencia and Yas Marina, in terms of the lowest average number of passes.

Is anyone else seeing a general trend there?

 

[teabagyokel]

... and is the only one of those circuits to have all 27 years of data, ie. it lived through the overtake-heavy 80s.

 

[snowy]

With my mind still firmly focused on the relative merits of overtaking in motorsport I put it to you that oranges are not the only fruit. And if they were, we would drown in the juice of their mundanity.