Technical Mercedes GP reinvent F-duct for the Front Wing?

[Fenderman]

Hm. We need Tranquillity69 for this one. I seem to recall he had a good handle on thermodynamics. In essence warm air is less dense than cold air. However, as air is heated it expands and if confined it increases in pressure. Therefore, I think, the warmer the air the faster it will flow and the greater will be the stalling effect.

Note: Sorry, like Yoda writing I am, but awake not yet am I.

 

[ATL11]

Hm. We need Tranquillity69 for this one. I seem to recall he had a good handle on thermodynamics. In essence warm air is less dense than cold air. However, as air is heated it expands and if confined it increases in pressure. Therefore, I think, the warmer the air the faster it will flow and the greater will be the stalling effect.

Note: Sorry, like Yoda writing I am, but awake not yet am I.

See that's what I was thinking, warmer air would expand and increase the pressure and therefore would it be released on to the front wing at a greater speed, increase the stalling effect.

Just I can't see such a small opening on the wing giving them 18kmh advantage in a straight line.....how, it's got to be heated.

 

[Fenderman]

I've not found any exact details on the dimensions of the holes, ducts and vents but air being forced through any kind of constriction would increase in temperature due to the rise in pressure within the system and also due to friction as it travels through the system. With regard to extra heating via routing past hot areas of the car one would expect further enhancement of the end effects. That is indeed the principle behind the now banned exhaust blown diffuser and the new aero features that designers have managed to incorporate to utilise the hot gas flowing from the newly positioned exhaust pipes.

In case you haven't seen them here are the links to some ruminations I posted early on in this thread.- there are links to Scarbs analysis in the second one:

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/mercedes-gp-reinvent-f-duct-for-the-front-wing.3960/#post-87741

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/mercedes-gp-reinvent-f-duct-for-the-front-wing.3960/#post-88144

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2012/03/24/mercedes-drs-duct-how-it-links-to-the-front-wing/

Full in-depth analysis of how it works, where the ducts are routed etc. No mention of air temp though, although this doesn't mean that it isn't important of course. Apologies if this has been posted before.

 

[Fenderman]

Thanks Senna's_r_f. Hadn't got round to catching up with Scarbs' latest ...

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Red Bull and Christian Horner are apparantly still seeking clarfication on Mercedes' F-duct-DRS. Either because Red Bull havn't got a clue how to copy it or they want to see how it fully works when Mercedes have to prove to the FIA it is legal. You'd think after it has been declared legal twice Horner would have a better excuse than "it might be declared illegal later in the year".

 

[KekeTheKing]

I think Horner is engaging in a bit of "Taste of your own medicine" treatment.

For 2 years they've been the ones defending their interpretations of the rules, now the shoe is on the other foot and Christian wants to try it out.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Difference is Red Bull's front wing was clearly flexing more than the rules intended, while Mercedes have utilised a small (intentional by the FIA) loophole in which the driver is allowed to activate the F-duct because it is tied to the DRS. One is dodgy while the other is pretty clear-cut (IMO), especially when some other teams are saying the system is legal.

 

[Brogan]

One word: schadenfreude

 

[KekeTheKing]

@ no-fiat

I agree, but that wont stop RBR from playing the aggrieved party.

 

[Galahad]

They're probably concerned that, having spent a fortune developing their own version, the FIA will ban it at the end of the season anyway, as they did with Red Bull's own innovations. On the basis that driver-operated aero devices are already banned, one can understand their frustration (well, I can...I may be the only one).

 

[KekeTheKing]

If this is banned (in the future) on the grounds that its a moveable driver operated aero device, then surely that will spell the end of DRS altogether.

(Which would please some to no end)

 

[ExtremeNinja]

They're probably concerned that, having spent a fortune developing their own version, the FIA will ban it at the end of the season anyway, as they did with Red Bull's own innovations. On the basis that driver-operated aero devices are already banned, one can understand their frustration (well, I can...I may be the only one).

I am with you. I can't understand quite how it is acceptable under the current regulations.

 

[Galahad]

I'm struggling to reconcile the FIA position with their own Article 3.15:

With the exception of the parts necessary for the adjustment described in Article 3.18, any car system, device or procedure which uses driver movement as a means of altering the aerodynamic characteristics of the car is prohibited.

But, if it livens up qualifying, fine. I'm not angry about it.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

If this is banned (in the future) on the grounds that its a moveable driver operated aero device, then surely that will spell the end of DRS altogether.

(Which would please some to no end)

But DRS is a sanctioned driver operated movable aerodynamic device whereas the front F-Duct thingy is a separate device which works passively upon non-passive activation of the DRS.

 

[KekeTheKing]

I wonder how quick a car would be if it ran the "Double-Diffuser", "F-duct", "Flexi-Wing", "EBD", and "Double-DRS".

 

[Tacitus]

and v12 engine and ground effect.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

and active ride height and Google Racing autonomous vehicle control system.

 

[Brogan]

The FIA are apparently once again going to be reviewing this.
According to the BBC, if it is found to be legal (again), "it remains possible that rivals will protest against the system at the next race in China on 13-15 April.".

Why don't the FIA just state clearly that they have already ruled it legal and if any team isn't happy with that to make a formal protest?

if the FIA rule it illegal this week, how does that somehow cancel out the legal ruling they gave it a few weeks ago?
As usual, the FIA are bloody useless when it comes to stuff like this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17588028

 

[ExtremeNinja]

It's madness. Unless the concept has altered at each race and since the initial thumbs up in the pre-season then why are they wasting thier time looking at it again? The mind boggles.