Technical Mercedes GP reinvent F-duct for the Front Wing?

[KekeTheKing]

Rather incredible that some teams thought the entire "F-Duct" concept was banned while others correctly ascertained that passive "F-Ducts" were indeed legal. Mercedes have been toying with a "Passive F-Duct" since 2010, so they should be in good shape there.

 

[Brogan]

This image is currently doing the rounds.

BBC article related to it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17412581

 

[Fenderman]

... so further to my earlier post (#59) the device is actually a "Front Wing Drag Reduction Device Activated by a Rear Wing Drag Reduction Device F-duct. Or "FWDRSAbaRWDRSFd" .

If Mercedes are later instructed not to use it by the FIA, does this mean that they will be totally de-Fducted?

 

[ATL11]

This is the stuff I love about F1, the thought that has gone into this, simple but ingenious

 

[Kewee]

Just read a quote from Christian Horner saying the trouble with these sorts of things is that it will undoubtably be banned next season, in the meantime everyone will have to go off and copy it at considerable expense.
Pot, kettle, black anyone. Isn't that exactly what all the teams had to do last year, copying Red Bulls off throttle blown diffuser, also at considerable expense, knowing it was going to be banned this season.
I'd say Mr Horner is getting a little lesson regarding how it feels when other teams play the same game. Thats what happens when you bring your toys to the big boys party. Priceless.

 

[Galahad]

Time will tell whether this becomes a must-have development. That Mercedes looked like it could do with a little more work yesterday.

 

[Jru]

Taken from the BBC Gary Anderson review of the race, the following is on the Merc F-duct:
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17421227)

Unless it's banned, the others will probably all have something similar on by Barcelona in May - but it's a very expensive thing for a small gain.
It means new rear-wing endplates and tubes in the beam wing and through the car, plus lots of new rear-wing endplates. You're looking at £150-200,000 to develop it.
And all the others will have to move their DRS actuation system. On the Mercedes it's in the rear-wing endplates, which is what allows them to have the hole, which otherwise is illegal. The others all have theirs in the centre of the wing.
I'm not sure they get that much advantage out of it.
Their straight line speed is not as good as the McLaren, which has the same engine and the car is not as consistent.
If it did really work well you might get 0.1-0.2secs a lap, which is a lot of time, but how much engineering has gone in to get that to work, and is it always helping you?
Those are the questions that will be asked.

There is more on how it works in the article but I feel the implications for other teams are possibly the more interesting aspect. He makes it sound like a lot of investment for what may not be a worthwhile device (I think this also happened for some in 2010 with the original F duct). You do have to wonder if it has more of an effect than he says though, given the relative competitiveness of Mercedes between Quali and the race (but there are presumably other factors at work here as well).
Either way I hope this is not banned because it will certainly make things interesting in the development routes followed, and seeing what Mercedes can do using their apparent qualifying advantage.

 

[Blog Zbod]

Time will tell whether this becomes a must-have development. That Mercedes looked like it could do with a little more work yesterday.

The teams haven't the luxury of waiting to see how it pans out. The potential upset to the balance of power caused by your opponent having a Star Wars missile defence while you do not is such that the mere rumour of its existence obliges you to launch full force into beginning development of your own, just in case the fool thing actually works.

Sometimes very beneficial developments are the unintended consequence of these motor racing arms races. The Goodyear Gatorback tyre was an indirect unintended consequence of the Tyrrell P34 6-wheeler.

 

[Galahad]

Of course they'll explore it. I'm just unsure as to whether they will adopt it.

 

[Slyboogy]

Time will tell whether this becomes a must-have development. That Mercedes looked like it could do with a little more work yesterday.

Certainly helped them in qualifying....I assume.

 

[Brogan]

The FIA have rejected the latest complaints from Red Bull and Lotus relating to Mercedes' rear wing.

So it looks as if that will be the first development race of the year as other teams hurry to implement their own versions.

Unless an official protest is lodged...

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-mercedes-suspects-red-bull-using-illegal-trick/

Ross Brawn has claimed that the Red Bull complaints about the Merc wing are a diversion away from the fact that Red Bull are using an 'illegal' engine trick regarding the switching on and off of individual cylinders. Cue back-and-forth accusations, a development race, followed by whatever the teams have spent a shed load of cash on developing and implementing, being banned for next year The FIA once again make a rod for their own back. For once why can't they write and adopt a black-and-white set of rules where every technical aspect is 100% clear? Surely it can't be that difficult for a governing body to set out what the rules are?

 

[Brogan]

For once why can't they write and adopt a black-and-white set of rules where every technical aspect is 100% clear? Surely it can't be that difficult for a governing body to set out what the rules are?

I've said it many times before, the FIA deliberately write the rules in this manner, to allow for this very thing.
Otherwise it would be a spec' series.

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

I've said it many times before, the FIA deliberately write the rules in this manner, to allow for this very thing.
Otherwise it would be a spec' series.

Surely you could have clear unambiguous rules without resorting to a spec series? This year's exhausts (not supposed to influence aero but blatantly are yet are declared legal), last year's flexi wings (blatantly flexing but how do you measure flex on track?), Red Bull's flexi floor (obviously to many as a movable aero device yet the FIAs own test was inadequate) - all legal but completely ambiguous. Some teams think they're legal, others are adamant they're illegal. The ambiguity comes form the fact that both sides can appear to have perfectly valid arguments as to why they're right. I don't think you have to resort to spec rules in order to make sure the rules you have in place are unambiguous. Surely it's just a case of saying 'this is what you can have, this is what you can't'. In an era where the teams are trying to cut costs, all that is happening at the moment is that someone finds a loophole, other teams complain, the complaint is dismissed only for the FIA to announce that the device is to be banned for next year (F-Duct, EBD). In the meantime teams spend money developing something which in a year's time will be illegal. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[Brogan]

Yes but there would be no drama otherwise

The only alternative is we have to assume the FIA are technically incompetent.
Surely that isn't the case...

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Yes but there would be no drama otherwise

The only alternative is we have to assume the FIA are technically incompetent.
Surely that isn't the case...

I think that much has been proven many times unfortunately, last years Red Bull flexi floor being an example. Which makes Horner's complaints regarding Merc all the more laughable.

 

[ATL11]

The rules are ambiguous to allow this sort of development to happen......FIA engineer (no pun intended) the regulations so this kind of development continues which bring intrigue and interest to the sport...........I'm biased as I love this development stuff.......

 

[ATL11]

I know their contents is protected so we can't paste the pictures on here, but one of my favourite Web pages for reading and then wondering, who thinks of these things...............

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/

 

[Fenderman]

The real difficulty, I believe, for any rule maker in a sport of such high technical excellence is that they are setting the boundaries for a bunch of people at the pinnacle of technical and engineering knowledge. It's often said of Adrian Newey, for example, that he is the most brilliant motorsport aerodynamicist and/or car designer of the age. There has to be enough flexibility in the rules to allow for innovation and progress but sufficient strictness to try to avoid latitude for "cheating".

Unfortunately or not (depending on ones point of view) rule making for something as complex as F1 is never goping to be an exact science. At the end of the day the bickering and to-and-fro-ing is all part of the entertainment and gives us punters more juicy stuff to talk and argue about.

Where I personally draw the line on this view though is with regard to inconsistencies and I agree with Sennas-right-foot that the flexi front wing thing was/is ridiculous. There's no good reason why photographic and video evidence of transgression cannot be written into the technical rules in the way it is in the Sporting reg's. After all you don't hear of the Stewards going and measuring how far a driver can look over his shoulder to determine if he should or shoud not have punted someone off the track! they look at the video!

 

[ATL11]

Okay thinking about this, the air that Mercedes are pulling from the rear wing to the front wing when using DRS.....

Assuming it's a plastic tube the air passes through within the car, would the temperature of the air as it hits the front wing give Mercedes a potential even better performance, if they haven't already thought of it?

Just if the tube heats the air by passing it through the engine, would warmer air on the front wing stall it more effectively?

Same principle for cold air, pass the tube past or through the radiators and would colder air stall the front wing more effective?

Or just go for the normal ambient temperature @ the race track?

Not sure, how the principles would work?

Anyone any ideas?