In 2007 McLaren were excluded from the WCC and had to pay a fine as well. The drivers were allowed to keep their points. If Mercedes are found guilty then I would expect something on the same lines as a punishment. Or would that be too consistent for the FIA?
Mercedes and Ferrari in 'secret' Pirelli tyre tests
- Thread starter The Artist.....
- Start date
Well Pirelli says Mercedes didn't learn anything. That's good enough for me.
Further F1 is unfair - you seem to be obsessed with fairness. Well how about making the tires more fair?
It is a team sport (It has been aggressively argued.) and the drivers are part of the team and both drivers got extra running at the test I think the penalty I proposed is fair and it will be quick easy and dealt with...
I think I'll wait until more information comes out on this as. It appears Pirelli have permission for in season testing but failed to inform the FIA. Did Mercedes benefit? There cars were good this weekend but Monaco is an exceptional circuit and the Merc 1 lap pace prior to Monaco was already pretty damn good. Once at the front at Monaco it;s difficult to lose the lead and the circuit isn't as abrasive as a permanent track so who's to say of they got an advantage or didn't.
It'll be interesting to see how Mercedes perform next time out. Canada is bad on tyres, if Mercedes suddenly stop shredding their rubber then I think it's not unreasonable to cry foul. If they start 1-2 and end 13-14 then what's the beef?
It'll be interesting to see how Mercedes perform next time out. Canada is bad on tyres, if Mercedes suddenly stop shredding their rubber then I think it's not unreasonable to cry foul. If they start 1-2 and end 13-14 then what's the beef?
How on earth would Pirelli know if the team learned anything or not? All Pirelli can confirm is that they didn't tell them which tyre was which but I'm pretty sure that Mercedes knows the difference between a hard tyre and a soft one, and Pirelli know nothing about the Mercedes car or what parts they may have been testing....
Also I suppose you would rather have a bias sport, but only as long as it is bias in favour of the team or driver you support....
So are we just assuming this test was undertaken at the behest of Mercedes? For all you know they were approached by Pirelli and asked to do a test that they were fully sanctioned for. I'm sure we'll be hearing plenty more soon.
No KekeTheKing we are not assuming that the test was undertaken on the behest of Mercedes that point makes zero difference as to who is to blame and according to the letter the FIA did not give permission for the test to go ahead....
Pirelli approached Mercedes but Mercedes should have checked back with the FIA to make sure that the test was legal, but they didn't, they have no excuse...
Pirelli approached Mercedes but Mercedes should have checked back with the FIA to make sure that the test was legal, but they didn't, they have no excuse...
After the debacle of the Spanish GP, I'm sure Mercedes was more than willing to take Pirelli's word on this tests compliance with Pirelli's mandate. Can't blame them.
If the FIA comes down harshly here, they'll be looking for a new tire supplier and engine supplier in the near future.
If the FIA comes down harshly here, they'll be looking for a new tire supplier and engine supplier in the near future.
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
I understood Pirelli were testing the proposed tyres, not the current ones. I'm guessing that Mercedes were presented with a different number of possible tyre constructions to try out. Mercedes do not know which of these will become the 'live' one.
I'm struggling to see how this would have assisted Mercedes with the current tyres because that's (presumably) not what was being tested. I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I highly doubt the tests were just about testing the current tyres in their different compound guises as that would have been pointless for Pirelli.
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
It does appear that Mercedes have walked into this one like the proverbial rake lying on the ground.
I'd be surprised if the punishment is as harsh as McLaren's though - that was more a revenue-raising exercise I felt.
I'd be surprised if the punishment is as harsh as McLaren's though - that was more a revenue-raising exercise I felt.
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
To me, this sounds like the following analogy....
Pietro Pirelli has a large amount of money saved in a deposit box in the Barcelona bank. However, Pietro cannot be bothered to wait for the bank to open, so instead asks everyone if they would be willing to go and withdraw his money for him. Manfred Mercedes agrees, but then realises he's going to have to break into the bank to get the money. However, rationalising that it was Pietro's money, and Manfred wasn't getting anything else out of the bank robbery, he agrees to go along with it! However, Ruttger Red Bull hears that Pietro has now got his money, and that Manfred had done all the work of breaking in! Ruttger argued that it was impossible to pros that Manfred hadn't benefited from the raid himself- and should be punished as a bank robber......
Pietro Pirelli has a large amount of money saved in a deposit box in the Barcelona bank. However, Pietro cannot be bothered to wait for the bank to open, so instead asks everyone if they would be willing to go and withdraw his money for him. Manfred Mercedes agrees, but then realises he's going to have to break into the bank to get the money. However, rationalising that it was Pietro's money, and Manfred wasn't getting anything else out of the bank robbery, he agrees to go along with it! However, Ruttger Red Bull hears that Pietro has now got his money, and that Manfred had done all the work of breaking in! Ruttger argued that it was impossible to pros that Manfred hadn't benefited from the raid himself- and should be punished as a bank robber......
Jos the Boss
Champion Elect
Canada's only bad on tyres if you try one stopping!
Il_leone
World Champion
Like I said Pirelli put Mercedes in a difficult position
but as Eddie Jordan pointed out Pirelli could not really ask Lotus, Ferrari or Red Bull to do the tests in the case of favouritism and these are the teams battling for the drivers title
So it makes sense to ask Mercedes who had the worst wear
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Pirelli need to accept the fine for this - not good PR but then if people are worried about tyres then they need to check other compounds
but as Eddie Jordan pointed out Pirelli could not really ask Lotus, Ferrari or Red Bull to do the tests in the case of favouritism and these are the teams battling for the drivers title
So it makes sense to ask Mercedes who had the worst wear
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Pirelli need to accept the fine for this - not good PR but then if people are worried about tyres then they need to check other compounds
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
Basically, Pirelli has put Mercedes up shit creek, stolen their paddle, but a hole in the boat, and continue to pour shit down on top of them!
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
How much fairer would you like than giving everyone the same type of tyres, giving everyone the same information about the tyres.... The only thing that has been unfair about the tyres is that one team has been given additional testing with this year's car on this year's tyres.....
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