McLaren's mid season development woes

[Il_leone]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...nson-Button-set-for-McLaren-crisis-talks.html

this is the worst slump I;ve seen Mclaren go through since the mid 90s... I can forgive 2009 because it was not just them but Ferrari who suffered from fighting for the title in 2008

 

[racecub]

Ok That was the sun. But it was interesting how vocal Button was in the article about the poor state of the Mclaren. And how others would be ahghast at it if they drove it. It hasnt been so bad in Hamilton's hands. Hamilton said little except he thinks things have gone too far to remedy this season and the team should be working in earnest on next years car.

This would suggest he's seriously considering staying at Mclaren....but wants a decent car with maybe a bit more say in its design and characteristicsThats just me thinking round things i read, but it sounds like he doesnt hold out a lot of hope now for this years championship. Bad McLarenbad!

 

[KekeTheKing]

The concept of a quick car being less easy to drive is not a new one

Although this has little bearing on McLaren's car development, I feel compelled to post an old NASCAR adage that I hear quite often.

"Loose is fast"

 

[Il_leone]

I was watching a programme last night on BBC4 " How to influence people and make an F1 car go faster " which was on Gordon Murray who designed the brilliant Mp4/4 and the Mclaren F1 supercar .

What a brilliant designer he was then, where is he now ?

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

He's here Il_leone:

http://www.gordonmurraydesign.com/

 

[Il_leone]

Thanks Chad Stewarthill

That is what I saw last night his career taking off from the brilliant Brabham BT52 to Mclaren MP4/4 and his current work T25(smaller than the smart car) and Mclaren F1

 

[snowy]

On a number of occasions Martin Whitmarsh and other McLaren team members have commented on how tight the development range is, with mere fractions of seconds being all that is realistically attainable. They have emphasised that prioritising development routes is paramount. It is my belief that they have titted about with the car and failed to embrace any of their oppositions designs or daring ones of their own.

They have also convinced themselves that the tyres cannot be understood, ignoring the fact that Lewis is able to use the tyres effectively when he isn't trying to conserve them. They persist in stifling his natural abilities and never actually "switch the tyres on" during the race. That is the most logical explanation for Jenson consistently matching or bettering Lewis's race pace.

Evidence of this is how Sebastian Vettel takes off like a scolded cat at the start of a race with apparently no regard for his tyres. He then does 3-5 more laps than any one else.

 

[F1ang-o]

snowy
Maybe Seb's trip to Pirelli factory & feed back to team helped......
IMO it looks like you have hit the nail on the head....I would have thought Macca could have worked it out ....
that Lewis was using the tyres effectively.....and they shouldn't be stifling his natural abilities.....
but they don't appear to take notice of what is right under their noses. .....

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

What Odds on a Mclaren 1-2 at Hockenheim?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

What odds on a McLaren 1-0 or an own goal? I am quite anxious about this new package, which sounds like an overhaul. Either it will work out-of-the-box or they will develop it over the season and come strong when it's too late. Come on McLaren. In struggling for reasons to continue my support for you at the moment. Nail it.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

The 'significant and more visible' upgrade planned for Hockenheim reportedly centres on the rear end, rather than the front. What I'm hoping for is that an improvement here might allow the drivers to get the best out of the tyres in terms of overall pace without the rear grip falling off a cliff like it did, for example, with Hamilton at Valencia. If it achieves that then they have half a chance of moving back up the grid.

 

[F1 Shift.net]

I am not a McLaren fan, although I respect what they have accomplished in the sport. But at times it seems as if the team becomes complacent, especially when they have had early season success. Not sure if it's a team culture thing, or what exactly. I could also be way off, so let me know what you guys think.

 

[KekeTheKing]

The 'significant and more visible' upgrade planned for Hockenheim reportedly centres on the rear end

This is music to my ears. RBR have already brought at least 3 different rear end configurations this year. Newey knows that's where the gains are. It's shocking that McLaren haven't been able to remotely keep pace in that area of development.

at times it seems as if the team becomes complacent

I agree. They pretty much think they're smarter than everyone else. And there's literally no reason at all to behave that way.

 

[Quintessentially]

I think the time for Ron to wrestle back control has come because strong leadership is needed. No more ASDA trolleys.

 

[Brogan]

Just to put things in perspective, this is how the team has fared in the constructor and driver standings after the British GP for the previous few seasons :

2009
McLaren - 6th
Hamilton - 5th
Kovalainen - 12th

2010
McLaren - 1st
Hamilton - 1st
Button - 2nd

2011
McLaren - 2nd
Hamilton - 5th (joint)
Button - 5th (joint)

 

[Il_leone]

Mclaren#'s problems have been self inflicted they clearly had the fastest car in the early part of the season and did not capitalise through driver errors and pit stop problems

Since coming back to Europe they've been woeful and it seems like they are sliding further down the grid unless its a circuit with a lot of long straights


My feeling is Mclaren will be woeful for the next two races then come back in Spa and Monza as usual

 

[Kewee]

Although this has little bearing on McLaren's car development, I feel compelled to post an old NASCAR adage that I hear quite often.

"Loose is fast"

Only in oval racing Keke. Where F1 searches for downforce the art of oval track racing, especially in Indy Cars, is to lose as much downforce as possible, avoiding that fine line when it becomes extremely dangerous. Very few master the art of driving a car so loose it's almost breaking away but those that do win on the ovals. It requires every bit as much skill as F1, with the art of continuous drafting thrown in, something an F1 driver doesn't have to contend with and probably more bravery than F1. Have you ever noticed how they tuck in under another cars rear wing on the straights then stagger their position for the turns regardless of whether they can attempt a pass. They're finding the clean air to gain downforce on their front wing in the turns, otherwise with a car so loose they'd fly off into the wall. Believe me they use skills they don't need or use in F1, in fact they use skills an F1 driver has to learn. F1 cars would never work set up loose.

 

[The Pits]

I have to say, that as someone who has spent quite a bit of effort in the past in defendin McLaren, I am struggling a little to understand why they are where they are. There are a number of opinions expressed, however, I feel that the real position is something along the lines of all the above plus some more.

Did the team start the year with a concept that has subsequently limited their potential? Have they been complacent based on early season form, and Lewis has covered the slump to a point? Have pit stop issues and Jensons issues distracted the team? Was missing the Mugello test with the lead drivers a mistake?

Personally, I am not sure. I think that fighting a war on many fronts is always going to be somewhat of an issue. That said, I do not think that the shortage of aero updates should be a problem, unless of course the push to provide the raised nose has left a gap in the lead times. They have a package for Germany, so who knows.

I would however, ask a few questions. Was it obvious that the team had an issue with pace in Spain? or Canada for that matter? The difference between the two drivers was such that the majority of opinion was in the "Jenson issue" camp, rather than a McLaren car issue. As good as Lewis is, I am not sure he would be capable of winning a race in a car only fit for 16th. If the gap between the two was not so great, I am sure more questions would have been asked.

I do not subscribe to the view that Lewis has been compromised through having enforced set up changes, and Jensons performances have improved through set up changes. The big issue for me is that other teams have delivered performance at Valencia and Silverstone which McLaren have not. some of this may be due to tyres and understanding them, some may be down to aero updates.

To cut to the chase, McLaren have had several issues this season, which they are trying to address, and seem to have been on the back foot from fairly early on. Hopefully, the recent meeting would have enforced the need to continue to work fully on all relevant areas, without relaxing any of them. Aero updates, set up improvements, pit stop consistency and strategy, along with better understanding of the tyres are all essential, rather than the diluted focus which may have been there to date.

The whole team are under close scrutiny. I do not think that this is a time for demanding sackings, but certain leaders need to step up more than they have been seen to be doing, or more questions will be asked, to which I am not sure there will be any answers.

 

[sportsman]

Nothing wrong with car according to Paddy Lowe.Beats me.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101164 McLaren technical director Paddy Lowe is adamant that there is nothing 'fundamentally' wrong with the team's car - and reckons recent struggles are down to it simply not finding a good enough set-up.
The team has endured two frustrating weekends in Valencia and Silverstone, where it has been forced to see main title rivals Ferrari and Red Bull Racing emerge as the teams to beat.
But despite struggling at times to even match the pace of Lotus, Williams and Sauber, McLaren thinks its situation is not as bad as it appears.
"You don't look at it and say 'okay, the car is a disaster in terms of its fundamentals," explained Lowe, when asked by AUTOSPORT for his reflections on the particularly difficult British Grand Prix

 

[snowy]

McLaren technical director Paddy Lowe is adamant that there is nothing 'fundamentally' wrong with the team's car - and reckons recent struggles are down to it simply not finding a good enough set-up.

McLaren thinks its situation is not as bad as it appears.

"If you were pessimistic you'd say we did well to get eighth and 10th, because we were fortunate with the loss of the Saubers and Maldonado, who I think would have finished ahead of us.
"I struggle to say that all of those teams have put a massive amount of performance on to their cars in the last month relative to us. I think we just have to keep doing the homework with regard to how we're tuning the car."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101164

Why am I not encouraged by this attitude?