Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Hamberg As you are a obviously a moderator and an acknowledged adjudicator on the technical expertise required to comment on this thread I am sure you will understand if I point out that you have twice changed the subject

What do the testers do that the drivers do/don't
What does anyone do in a 'techinical capacity'

I bow to the inevitability of you knowing all the technical goings on at McLaren, and respectfully ask you to address the answer to your question,
what can be gained by taking the drivers?

Why do you need the race drivers to achieve that? What will they gain that Paffett and Turvey can't?

 

[racecub]

Well Button wont be on the simulator because he's in Budapest.And anyway there are three weeks to train and get on the simulator, but only 3 precious days of actual car testing Hamilton is the best driver on the grid in my opinion, but thats irrelevant.
So you're saying theres no need for McLarens drivers to try to get to grips with the way pace dropped away last race? No need to get more experience of the feel of these tyres. Yet apart from HRT, the whole of the rest of the grid think its important. You still think McLaren have made a good choice here?

 

[Hamberg]

Hamberg
what can be gained by taking the drivers?

Sure. Nothing.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

Does it really matter whether Lewis and Jenson take part at the test. At the end of the day Mclaren are a team and should be free too choose whoever their want to drive at a test.

 

[The Artist.....]

OK, so there's actually very little that can be gained by taking the race drivers - as has been detailed very carefully by Hamberg already! - But there's a lot to be gained by allowing the TEST DRIVERS the chance to TEST the car! (And an opportunity to keep their eye in, should they be needed!) McLaren have made their decision - they might change their mind, but the key thing is that it's their decision to make - not yours, not mine, but MCLAREN'S!!!

 

[Josh]

Yeah what Artist said, and if you're really passionate then I suggest looking here: http://www.mclaren-jobs.com/racing.php

Just work your way up and maybe one day you can be team principal and make sensible decisions

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Hamberg
You asked the question 'what can be gained by taking the drivers'

I gave you about 5 answers including confidence ( which Artist addressed, thanks Artist!)

It would be courteous to respond to this, instead of introduce new questions and hope to 'ridicule' someone into silence by, for example questioning their understanding of the technical function of the team, or assuming the high ground wrt posting intentions

You can come back with more diversion eg 'you don't make sense' or just respond to the answer to your question, what can Mclaren gain by taking drivers instead of testers

 

[Hamberg]

Hamilton is the best driver on the grid in my opinion

Then McLaren must be pretty decent then

 

[Speshal]

But there's a lot to be gained by allowing the TEST DRIVERS the chance to TEST the car! (And an opportunity to keep their eye in, should they be needed!)

This is a very valid point, there's nothing like on track experience and that can't be gained in a simulator. You'd want a driver that has actually driven this iteration of the car should either main driver do a Scumacher/Webber and break a leg (touch wood)

 

[FB]

Mod Comment

This is obviously something which divides opinion but if we could please avoid any personal attacks or criticisms.

Thanks

FB

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

Mclaren's agruement could be should Lewis and Jenson not be able to attend a GP for either health or injury reason *(heaven for bid nothing happens to either of them), who would their turn too that has track experience. This test could be a good thing for both Turvey and Paffett too put some miles on the clock for the pair of them should their be needed to race their race car.

 

[Hamberg]

Hamberg
You asked the question 'what can be gained by taking the drivers'

I gave you about 5 answers including confidence ( which Artist addressed, thanks Artist!)

It would be courteous to respond to this, instead of introduce new questions and hope to 'ridicule' someone into silence by, for example questioning their understanding of the technical function of the team, or assuming the high ground wrt posting intentions

You can come back with more diversion eg 'you don't make sense' or just respond to the answer to your question, what can Mclaren gain by taking drivers instead of testers

I have answered but I clearly need to be more explicit:

Ahem....

McLaren will gain no advantage taking their race drivers to Mugello over their test drivers.

For reasons please see responses by Slyboogy, Artist and Jenson Button.

Ta

 

[Hamberg]

Hamberg I point out that you have twice changed the subject

What do the testers do that the drivers do/don't
What does anyone do in a 'techinical capacity'

Just re read this... No.

I said learn about the technical team, of which Paffett (he's a test driver) is part of.

 

[Viscount]

If McLaren didn't need test drivers they would'my bother having them. Hamilton for instance was in the simulator today, so clearly they feel that the feedback Paffett & Turvey are good enough to develop the car and test at Mugello. Of Paffett had been able to find financial backing trust me he'd have been in a race seat by now.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

The bottom line is this;

When one is in competition against other teams, game theory and the need to beat your competitors comes into place

So, it might be scientifically better to use test drivers (by definition, not the best drivers available but the reserves)

but, (there's the kicker)

if your closest competitors are taking their drivers, then unless you can prove that you are either way ahead or will gain an advantage bynottaking your drivers

then it's reasonable to assume that you are not applying any gaming theory to the challenge of beating other teams to a specific goal

So do Mclaren gain an advantage by not taking their drivers? Is that advantage so big that they do not need to even have one driver attend?
Was this planned ages ago or has it been decided to respond to the current situation where Mclaren having started strongly have not capitalised and have actually dropped behind a competitor?

 

[FB]

Mod Comment

Thanks to all for their contributions on this subject and it has now been done to death. Nothing we say on here is going to change the decision Mclaren has made so any further posts on the subject will be deleted.

Thank you for your understanding.

FB

 

[racecub]

McLaren's retirement of Button in the last race was probably tactical as he can now have a new grearbox and Mclaren are planning a new rear end which requires the gearbox to be a different shape.If they hadnt retired him he'd have to have waited until Monaco to get it. If this is true then will the test drivers be testing this on Button's car do you think at Mugello?
This is the link to the article about it
http://www.f1rules.com/tactical-gearbox-failure-tricks

 

[F1ang-o]

racecub
Typical tactics for Button...last race LH takes a grid drop but JB..nah gets the new box...early & without a penalty. I have observed this buttoned up approach many times...Turkey 2010 as a starter...last year P3 overtaking Karthi under yellows ...right next to a crashed car being craned away etc....no penalty for JB..he was on the radio saying Karthi was going dangerously slow.....CRAP
If LH feels the need to go to testing ...then let him...he is the bloke at the sharp end of the Mclaren team...bringing home the win...that is...if he is the one that the team want to bring home the win?
LH was given extra time off during the winter break...maybe it has finally dawned on him,that he is being disadvantaged by this caring approach, & needs to get on with it, & forget the crap that was bandied about when JB joined McLaren.....
Stop being nice Lewis.!

 

[Josh]

I don't know, but his engine sounded pretty odd to me.

And even if it was tactical then honestly that's tough shit for Hamilton. If he ever has a retirement due to something you can be pretty sure they'll change his gearbox too just because they can.

But I guess it isn't "cheap" and "typical" then.

 

[downforce]

Didn't hamilton get a free gearbox with the china thing?