Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[cider_and_toast]

It's often overlooked but most teams had abandoned their turbo engines by 1988. Honda had an engine that had been 5 years in the development and had already won the 1987 world championship in the back of a Williams.

By 1988 only McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus, Arrows, Zakspeed and Osella were running 1.5ltr turbos. Of those teams only the McLaren and Ferrari had anything like decent chassis (as proven by the fact that third in the championship were Benetton with a naturally aspirated Ford engine).

I'm not denying that the MP4/4 wasn't a good car. It's greatest achievement was in its reliability. However, the circumstances were skewed well in its favour over the season.

 

[Wombcat]

I'm not denying that the MP4/4 wasn't a good car. It's greatest achievement was in its reliability.

And the fuelfficiency.

But the car was still pretty good, because the MP4/5 in 1989 was still very much dominant. Although they also had the best drivers, so that helps too.

 

[Il_leone]

Honda did a number on everyone that season where they found more power than the other engines running turbos..Ferrari's were fuel thirsty , BMW had withdrawn pretty much. The Mclaren chassis combined with the brilliance of its two drivers were also factor in its utter dominance seeing Lotus with similar engines and supposedly a top driver in Piquet at the wheel could not achieve the same resutls

 

[cider_and_toast]

Lotus with similar engines and supposedly a top driver in Piquet at the wheel could not achieve the same resutls

The Lotus Type 100T was a dog of a car. The last one to be designed by Gerard Ducarouge, it had too much flex in the chassis, a cramped driving position and according to one Lotus book, there were issues with the Lotus wind tunnel that gave some false data during the design stage that meant the aerodynamics were all shot as well. At Monaco in 1988 Piquet qualified 4.4 seconds behind Senna on pole. That just goes to show how garbage the chassis was.

 

[Il_leone]

cider_and_toast I don;t think the gap though is all down to chassis between Mclaren and Lotus. Imaging if Prost had suggested Piquet to Ron. I still think Prost would have won but Piquet would have been trying to play political games to side Honda with him

 

[F1Brits_90]

very interesting story, Toto Wolff was happy for Mercedes resupply McLaren in 2018 after leaving in 2014 but appartantly negotiations dragged on for too long & by the time Mclaren had made a decision. was not able to put the infrastructure in place to cater at such short notice.

Wolff: Mercedes wanted to supply McLaren

Toto Wolff says Mercedes wanted to supply McLaren with engines in 2018 but negotiations dragged on for too long. When it became clear that Honda had failed to develop a competitive power unit in 2017, McLaren started to seek alternative options for 2018. McLaren shareholder Mansour Ojjeh approached Daimler chairman Dieter Zetsche about a possible deal leaning on the relationship the 2 built during Mercedes' 25-year supply deal with McLaren between 1995 & 2014, but when it came to negotiating details, the deal fell through.

Wolff insists Mercedes was interested in a deal, but says he was not able to put the infrastructure in place to cater for a fourth customer team at such short notice "We wanted to give McLaren an engine, the problem is that it dragged on for a long time & we just didn't have the structure in place & the capacity to supply them an engine for 2018"

 

[RasputinLives]

Lies.

 

[F1Brits_90]

Lies.

but lies about what you have expand why wolff is lying

I was thinking reading that the whole truth was being told that maybe Mercedes were asking too much money, which is why negoations went on to long as Mercedes wouldn't come down on the unrealistic sums asked

 

[Il_leone]

It was not just money, Mclaren would certainly want the same spec as Mercedes have which the other customers don't have and they can argue that their past relationship justify this plus.

Off course Mercedes don't want to give the same engine that can beat its own factory team proving their chassis is inferior

It is not only that but factory available parts that would help to make the engine perform better ie full factory backed like in Moto GP

 

[siffert_fan]

F1Brits_90

Since Wolff is a master of the double standard, as proven by his castigating RB for not showing "respect" for Renault, yet letting Mclaren skate by even though they were much more harsh about Honda than RB were about Renault, his honesty is certainly open to question, IMO.

 

[RasputinLives]

Toto Wolff (and many others in F1) are simply there to be PR bullshit and appeal their teams to the fans. He spent years saying "we really wish for the fans sake that racing was closer" and "we'll always let our drivers race" and "we just want a good show". It's all crap. He works for Mercedes and be works hard behind the scenes lobbying the FIA and whoever else has influence to make it impossible for the other teams to get anywhere near him. That's his job.

It's very easy to say "oh I really wanted to supply Mclaren! It would have been so good for the show!" Now he doesn't' have to do it - whilst blaming long negotiations like he had no influence over it.

It's just PR bullshit.

 

[Il_leone]

What are the odds on the following ?

i) Mclaren win ?
ii) Alonso win?
iii) Alonso world title?
iv) Alonso quits?
v) Norris to make his debut?

 

[FB]

What are the odds on the following ?

v) Norris to make his debut?

This bloke?

 

[Titch]

Who’s that bloke then.?

 

[FB]

Just for you Titch - Norris Cole

 

[Il_leone]

@FB Mclaren are desperate then

 

[Titch]

Okay FB.

I haven’t watched the big soaps for years now, apart from Casualty, and now the storyline in that is so daft, I’ve virtually given up on that as well.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Just for you Titch - Norris Cole

Quite a miraculous man; I read the biog and enjoyed:

"He attended Derek's funeral in 1997 after he died of a heart attack. "

 

[siffert_fan]

FB

I think he means Chuck Norris. That way, the team knows what he will do to them if they don't get their act together!

 

[Il_leone]

I did mean Lando Norris who is no doubt going to be Mclaren driver one day and it looks like it could be a race between him and George Russell to be Britain's next world champion