Clip The Xmas 
If used correctly then there's no reason not to have it.
It's a bit like saying Red Bull shouldn't have the off throttle EBD because if it was used all the time on every lap they'd run out of fuel.
McLaren Drivers In The WDC Since Raikkonen's Non-signing In Late 2009
- Thread starter RayInTorontoCanada
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It's a bit like saying Red Bull shouldn't have the off throttle EBD because if it was used all the time on every lap they'd run out of fuel.
Il_leone
World Champion
Reason why Mclaren did not sign Kimi was because they were not convinced they were getting the 2003-2005 Kimi Raikkonen and were worried they may get the 2009 version of Kimi.
Kimi thought he was worth the same value as Lewis but Mclaren wanted him to prove it first given he was already filthy rich...his management really did rinse Ferrari dry with $50m a year !
Kimi thought he was worth the same value as Lewis but Mclaren wanted him to prove it first given he was already filthy rich...his management really did rinse Ferrari dry with $50m a year !
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
You mean the Kimi who finished just 1 point behind Hamilton in a weaker car...a car that had been frozen for development mid way through the year and was not only behind RBR and Brawns but had been leap-frogged by McLaren, BMW, Toyota, even Force India (on the fast circuits) as well? The same Kimi who challenged Webber for 4th place in the WDC going into Interlagos...until Webber (the eventual Brazilian GP winner) chopped his Ferrari on lap 1?
Il Leone, the only reason they didn't sign him is because Button, needing a drive, suddenly and quickly offered himself cheaper than what the Robertsons were asking for Raikkonen during negotiations.
By signing Button to partner Hamilton, Mclaren got a duo of World Champions, the first all British WDC line up since Clark / Hill, an awful lot of publicity and some superb sponsorship opportunities. Two proven drivers who have subsequently worked well together (almost certainly better than a Hamilton / Raikonen partnership) and I would suggest a stronger driver pairing than Alonso / Massa.
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
Well, of course it's (HAM-BUT) a stronger pairing than Alonso/Massa. Button's better than Massa...and we all know that Alonso is afraid of Hamilton.
Ray, are you seriously suggesting that the 2009 Mclaren was better than the 2009 Ferrari?
"Hamberg, the only reason he isn't in F1 is because McLaren didn't want to pay him what they were paying Lewis. That and he also wanted to go Rallying"
"Il Leone, the only reason they didn't sign him is because Button, needing a drive, offered himself cheaper than what the Robertsons were asking for Raikkonen."
Nice to know that you are consistent.
"we all know that Alonso is afraid of Hamilton."
We all know than when Alonso was asked about that he said that he would partner Hamilton as long as it wasn't at McLaren.
It would appear that 606 still exists, it's just changed it's name.
"Il Leone, the only reason they didn't sign him is because Button, needing a drive, offered himself cheaper than what the Robertsons were asking for Raikkonen."
Nice to know that you are consistent.
"we all know that Alonso is afraid of Hamilton."
We all know than when Alonso was asked about that he said that he would partner Hamilton as long as it wasn't at McLaren.
It would appear that 606 still exists, it's just changed it's name.
It would appear that 606 still exists, it's just changed it's name.
ahh don't give up on the rest of us Bill - Ray just loves Kimi so much he can't help himself. He once argued with me that because Kimi had the 3rd most fastest laps of any driver he had to be ranked in the top 5 F1 drivers of all time.
Fact of the the matter is Ray that after 2007 Kimi couldn't be bothered and Mclaren didn't take him back because it was plain for all the world to see. Try to argue with me its to do with the Robertsons all you like but I'm not going to swallow it. Kimi was a great driver in his day but by the time he left F1 he'd gone off the boil. Thats just the way he is.
As for the Mclaren rev button story - I'd love to argue with it too but the amount of retirements Kimi had leads me to believe you have to start looking at what the driver is doing at somepoint - I'll say the same thing about Alesi and Webber.
Sorry Ray - but all out hereos let us down eventually.
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
They both started 2009 behind the eight ball on the double-diffuser teams (Brawns, Williams, Toyota) with Ferrari developing ahead of McLaren into mid season, neither being a potential/consitent winner...But then Ferrari decided to freeze development on the F60 whilst McLaren kept on bringing upgrade upon upgrade and, once they'd sorted the MP4-24, they were as fast or even faster than Red Bull's RB5. The McLaren was a superior animal over all. Yes.
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
What utter rubbish!
I never, ever said that! I don't rate Kimi in the Top 5 All time...No Way!!! Heck, he's not even in my Top 10 or my Top Dozen!!!Now yours is a 606-type wind up post, Rasputin!
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
How is that inconsistent? The Robertsons wanted Lewis-range numbers (~ 15/18 Mil) while Button offered himself cheaper (~ 8 Mil). What's so inconsistent? The Rallying bit would have been negotiable. It's not like he would have contested every WRC event. He doesn't even do that now!
What utter rubbish!
Now yours is a 606-type wind up post, Rasputin!
*sigh* I could go find the conversation Ray but I really have better things to do.
Have fun going round on them tyres but you still won't bring kimi back
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
*sigh* I could go find the conversation Ray but I really have better things to do.
Give up now, Rasputin, 'cause you'll waste the rest of your life trying to find it as it doesn't exist. As I said, Kimi isn't even in my Top 12.
Il_leone
World Champion
"Hamberg, the only reason he isn't in F1 is because McLaren didn't want to pay him what they were paying Lewis. That and he also wanted to go Rallying"
"Il Leone, the only reason they didn't sign him is because Button, needing a drive, offered himself cheaper than what the Robertsons were asking for Raikkonen."
Nice to know that you are consistent.
"we all know that Alonso is afraid of Hamilton."
We all know than when Alonso was asked about that he said that he would partner Hamilton as long as it wasn't at McLaren.
It would appear that 606 still exists, it's just changed it's name.
Bill Boddy...thats where Raikkonen said he felt he should deserve what he thinks his value is and that means paid nearer Lewis' bracket not less which is what Mclaren offered him
If you were looking for a job that you wanted would not you offer yourself cheaper than your competition if you felt the drive was more important than the money like Hakkinen and COulthard who took Ron's offer of $2m base plus $1m a win in 1997 when there were people within Mclaren suggesting Ron should sign Damon Hill... the same offer was put to Hill and he felt he was insulted and rejected it ...
The fact that the Robertsons ( Button's former manager) were making it that Mercedes were interested in Kimi was all a smokescreen in his last ditch effort to keep him in F1 and also Ron Dennis would have had some consultation about Kimi;s wages as well given he was on $50m a year which was a rip off for Ferrari and Luca
if people think Kimi was going to do better than either Mclaren last year ...well Ferrari would have kept him period ...when Alonso joined Ferrari they were already singing praises his attitude was better than Kimi's
For a start I don';t think Kimi would have made those decisions that earned Button his wins in Australia and China.
Luca realised Kimi did not have the commitment and attitude to sort things out at Ferrari when the car was uncompetitive which was one of the concerns at Mclaren that it as going to be repeated and he was just driving for money...basically they wanted to avoid a repeat of Hakkinen 2001 where he had lost motivation
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
If you look at the variable weather races last year, Button didn't Ace all of them. It was 50/50, especially benchmarked against Hamilton.
He barely beat Hamilton in China...was trailing him in Belgium...and got his rear end wiped against the floor in Korea. What you're suggesting is an opinion and is as valid as anyone else's but, to be fair, Button's calls in variable weather conditions aren't perfect...Even in Canada last weekend where, for instance, he came in for Inters when the rain got heavier. Jenson drove a stunning race (in Canada), no question. I was there and cheered it. But I have to say that he was bailed out by saftety cars, especially the last one. So there's an element of luck and it's not all 'tactical brilliance'. Cheers.
Hardly fair to use Belgium as an example seeing as he got taken out early in the race.
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
MCLS, I know...but I only said he was "trailing" in Belgium - before he was crashed into. So, what I meant to say to be more clear is that, in Belgium, he certainly wasn't ahead of Hamilton. And Belgium was another variable weather race.
Kimi had won 4 times in Belgium...in 5 races. Not an easy feat.
Kimi had won 4 times in Belgium...in 5 races. Not an easy feat.
Only because of the late safety car that closed everyone up towards the end of that race Ray - before then he was 30s in front of Lewis.
Swings & roundabouts...
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
True. Thankfully - mercifully even - for Jense he had the help of more than one SC in Montreal at the weekend. 5 of 'em! Wiping away a drive thru, a poor decision to go on Inters when it started to rain harder, a tangle with Nando, etc.
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