RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
Ok but this is a Devil's Advocate thread that asks if McLaren made a mistake by not taking on Raikkonen when they had the chance?
McLaren Drivers In The WDC Since Raikkonen's Non-signing In Late 2009
- Thread starter RayInTorontoCanada
- Start date
- Status
Don't think we can ever know, Ray. Depends on how Raikkonen felt.
I think there much better off - both Lewis and Jenson are miles better than Kimi everyone knows that. When Kimi drove the Mclaren all it did was break down - look how reliable they've got since he left! Kimi used to break cars its obvious.
He really couldn't develop a car either - his one world championship came in a car developed by Schumacher and he had to develop the car he just got worse and worse. He was convincingly beat by Massa in both 2008 and 2009 - and lets face it if it wasn't for Massa then Kimi wouldn't have been champion in 2007.
Mclaren were best shot of him really. Ron knew he wasn't a quality driver which is why he sacked him and replaced him with Alonso in 07. The only reason they considered taking him back was because of his sponsorship deal with Red Bull - as soon as they realised they could have Jenson they didn't even think about it.
He was only ever a poor man's Mika anyway. To me he was just a slightly better version of Trulli - he'd turn up enough to do a fastest lap of the race and then sleep the rest of the weekend.
He really couldn't develop a car either - his one world championship came in a car developed by Schumacher and he had to develop the car he just got worse and worse. He was convincingly beat by Massa in both 2008 and 2009 - and lets face it if it wasn't for Massa then Kimi wouldn't have been champion in 2007.
Mclaren were best shot of him really. Ron knew he wasn't a quality driver which is why he sacked him and replaced him with Alonso in 07. The only reason they considered taking him back was because of his sponsorship deal with Red Bull - as soon as they realised they could have Jenson they didn't even think about it.
He was only ever a poor man's Mika anyway. To me he was just a slightly better version of Trulli - he'd turn up enough to do a fastest lap of the race and then sleep the rest of the weekend.
Given that in 2010 both Mclaren drivers were in with a shout at the title with three or four races left, and Hamilton still had a chance in the final race, I don't think they did too badly. But for a catastrophic result to a minor clash with Massa at Monza, and being taken out by Webber at Singapore, Hamilton might easily have been champion. would Raikkonen have fared any better than either Lewis or Jenson? I don't think so.
In response to Sly asking me if the above was a WUM post
Its me being slighty naughty with Ray after our Glock discussion last night - but I know he's laughing
I'll slap my own wrists
I will be honest I don't think Mclaren would have done any better with Kimi and I honestly believe Lewis and Button were the better choice for the team. But the rest is me being a bit flippant.
Its me being slighty naughty with Ray after our Glock discussion last night - but I know he's laughing
I'll slap my own wrists
I will be honest I don't think Mclaren would have done any better with Kimi and I honestly believe Lewis and Button were the better choice for the team. But the rest is me being a bit flippant.
Ifs and buts. Ofcourse while Vettel edged it lasy year people forget he lost around 65 points due to reliabilty, he crushed Webber and had all things been fair on the reliability front he would have still be WDC.
Same with Hamilton and Button, Hamilton lost around 35 points due to reliability and still had 26 points over Button, so another convincing victory.
Back on topic... I do think Kimi is a better driver than Button pace wise but Button overall suits McLaren better, he's great with the PR not too far behind Lewis and is British.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Kimi losing interest in F1 coincides with Hamiltons arrival
I am not saying that Lewis scared Kimi away, but I do remember Kimi
getting shown up by Lewis on track
Kimi would have accepted Mclarens offer if he was genuinely interested in proving that he is the best
He didn't
For whatever reason Button did
I am not saying that Lewis scared Kimi away, but I do remember Kimi
getting shown up by Lewis on track
Kimi would have accepted Mclarens offer if he was genuinely interested in proving that he is the best
He didn't
For whatever reason Button did
When was this exactly?
I believe Mr. Raikkonen won the world title in 2007 in a direct battle with Mr. Hamilton.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Throughout 2007, in fact right up till the last race
Montreal 2008?
Montreal 2008?
That was more Hamilton's stupidity rather than Raikkonen's skill, it's funny how people forget about how Nico Rosberg ploughed into the back on the McLaren...
I do not think Lewis Hamilton scared Kimi Raikkonen away. I think Raikkonen got some tough breaks in 2008, got beaten by Massa that year and watched his reputation plummet on the back of ice cream and coke.
But he didn't like the media knocking him down, so presumably he told them in the bluest language possible that they could do without him and he was off rallying!
But he didn't like the media knocking him down, so presumably he told them in the bluest language possible that they could do without him and he was off rallying!
Not at all, and I was on topic. I was just trying to illustrate that while they didn't win the title, Mclaren still had a pretty good year in 2010 against strong competition from Ferrari and Red Bull (and especially considering where they had been for the first half of 2009), due in no small part to the performances by both drivers. I don't believe that Raikkonen could have done any better than either of them.
TN23
Rookie
Vettel lost even more points due to crashing into people (Button, Webber and Liuzzi) and not paying attention to the safety car!
As for Kimi, it was a shame he didn't want to carry on- all I saw of him in WRC was him crashing quite often! I think the added PR value and extra harmony that Button adds means that he's a better fit for McLaren- although he was the quicker driver when he got half a sniff of a good result.
I'll relate a story I was told about Raikkonen when he was at McLaren (sly - you've heard this one already, so smoke 'em if you've got 'em):
The Mercedes engine used to have an "extra revs" button, for the purposes of delivering a short boost in power. The engineers placed a limit of 5 uses per race maximum. When Kimi grenaded his engine at Hockenheim in 2003 (IIRC), the data engineers checked the telemetry and found that on the lap that the engine had blown, Kimi had used the over revs button 17 times! (a friend of mine was on a metallurgy course with a guy from McLaren at the time).
All Kimi ever cared about was driving as fast as he possibly could - he appeared to have no mechanical sympathy for his car though. It always seemed to me that he couldn't care less about nursing his machinery - he was the human component that operated the car, and it was up to the car to survive what he did to it.
I later heard that some of the McLaren mechanics were quite happy to see the back of Kimi, as they were fed up with his callous treatment of all their hard work (though you could also argue that perhaps they weren't working hard enough in Kimi's eyes).
Kimi may have been the perfect fit at McLaren during the Ron years (fast, quiet, Finnish), but under Whitmarsh the team seems much more human and approachable, and Jenson fits perfectly into that mould.
I expect someone is going to say something acerbic along the lines of "but they're not winning titles by being cuddly & approachable - they should be ruthless & efficient and nasty and blah, blah, blah..." - well to them I say: that this is a forum and I am airing my opinion, which is that I would rather support a McLaren team that has Jenson & Lewis and occasionally fails to live up to expectations than a Red Bull winning machine or a mono-focussed Ferrari team that is underperforming.
The Mercedes engine used to have an "extra revs" button, for the purposes of delivering a short boost in power. The engineers placed a limit of 5 uses per race maximum. When Kimi grenaded his engine at Hockenheim in 2003 (IIRC), the data engineers checked the telemetry and found that on the lap that the engine had blown, Kimi had used the over revs button 17 times! (a friend of mine was on a metallurgy course with a guy from McLaren at the time).
All Kimi ever cared about was driving as fast as he possibly could - he appeared to have no mechanical sympathy for his car though. It always seemed to me that he couldn't care less about nursing his machinery - he was the human component that operated the car, and it was up to the car to survive what he did to it.
I later heard that some of the McLaren mechanics were quite happy to see the back of Kimi, as they were fed up with his callous treatment of all their hard work (though you could also argue that perhaps they weren't working hard enough in Kimi's eyes).
Kimi may have been the perfect fit at McLaren during the Ron years (fast, quiet, Finnish), but under Whitmarsh the team seems much more human and approachable, and Jenson fits perfectly into that mould.
I expect someone is going to say something acerbic along the lines of "but they're not winning titles by being cuddly & approachable - they should be ruthless & efficient and nasty and blah, blah, blah..." - well to them I say: that this is a forum and I am airing my opinion, which is that I would rather support a McLaren team that has Jenson & Lewis and occasionally fails to live up to expectations than a Red Bull winning machine or a mono-focussed Ferrari team that is underperforming.
Bushi
Race Winner
Well first of all, Button surprised me with his performance since he joined Mclaren. His wins where mostly achieved by strategy rather than raw speed, but than again he is very consistent and a good asset to Mclaren.
Was it the wrong choice from Mclaren to led Kimi go.........YES it was.
As a former Raikkonen and Mclaren fan, i would love to see the Kimi-Mclaren combo again.
Was it the wrong choice from Mclaren to led Kimi go.........YES it was.
As a former Raikkonen and Mclaren fan, i would love to see the Kimi-Mclaren combo again.
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
So, Kimi used the "over-rev/extra-revs" button 17 times in 1 lap as opposed to using it only a maximum of 5 times per race, eh?
That's news. One wonders how come that Ilmor engine lasted until the lap it blew...and not on the first lap or two as, surely, that wouldn't have been the only lap Kimi used the "over-rev" button a few to several to umpteen times. One also wonders why they'd have that button in the first place given it's propensity to be so fragile. How are we to believe this? How are we suppose to believe it when Whitmarsh was waxing lyrical about Kimi to the BBC team in Abu Dhabi in 2009?
That's news. One wonders how come that Ilmor engine lasted until the lap it blew...and not on the first lap or two as, surely, that wouldn't have been the only lap Kimi used the "over-rev" button a few to several to umpteen times. One also wonders why they'd have that button in the first place given it's propensity to be so fragile. How are we to believe this? How are we suppose to believe it when Whitmarsh was waxing lyrical about Kimi to the BBC team in Abu Dhabi in 2009?
- Status
Similar threads
