McLaren Drivers In The WDC Since Raikkonen's Non-signing In Late 2009

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Looking at the standings (pasted from the main page here on CTA)...

1 Sebastian Vettel 161
2 Jenson Button 101
3 Mark Webber 94
4 Lewis Hamilton 85
5 Fernando Alonso 69
6 Felipe Massa 32
7 Vitaly Petrov 31
8 Nick Heidfeld 29
9 Michael Schumacher 26
10 Nico Rosberg 26
11 Kamui Kobayashi 25

...Do you think McLaren drivers ought to be closer to Vettel in the title hunt?

What about in 2010?

Playing Devil's Advocate, do you think McLaren made a mistake by not re-hiring Raikkonen when they had an opportunity to do so at the end of 2009? Martin Whitmarsh was talking him up at that last meeting in Abu Dhabi...but, in the end, he didn't want to pay Raikkonen (what the Robertsons were asking) and got Button for cheaper.

What's your opinion of Raikkonen's speed in relation to Button...and Raikkonen's consistency relative of Hamilton?

As a reminder, RAI finished just 1 point behind HAM in the 2009 championship in a car that was no longer being developed and drove through a fireball with fuel burn stings to his eyes at Interlagos, the 2nd last race of his career.
 

Hamberg

FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :)
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I think they could be closer but also had Webber had a better car behind him there is nothing to suggest (looking at last years performance) that a couple of those 25 pointers couldn't have been his and then of course it would be closer.

Vettel only led the WDC once so no.

McLaren wouldn't have taken Kimi back because he's a corporate nightmare.

I personally think Raikkonen was excellent and I don't buy that he was lazy. In comparison to Button? Button has shown what he can do - on a good day I'd say it's marginal.
 

HammydiRestarules

Di Resta fan :).
Contributor
Ray your just opening up a can of worms here.

It really doesn't matter how far Mclaren are behind Red Bull. Neweys car is just unbeatable at the moment and it's through mistakes from RB drivers that have cost them in both China and Canada this season.

TBH - I think Raikkonen wanted out in 2010 anyway as he likes to live the high life. I can never see him coming back to F1 and think NASCAR is probably a perfect fit for him now.
 

sushifiesta

Champion Elect
Contributor
I think McLaren, and Hamilton in particular, have been victims of bad luck more than anything. Before Montreal everything was going Vettel's way (and even that was hardly a disaster finishing 2nd), and Red Bull's reliability problems (KERS aside) have disappeared too. With the fastest car by far (in qualifying at least) and luck to go with it there's not a lot the McLaren guys can do about him.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I think F1 would have been even better with Kimi, especially if he was back at McLaren....but McLaren has changed since he left so who knows.

He doesn't get into shunts or get penalties, when he's having a bad race he picks up points, I for one don't think he ever was "lazy" if he could consistently get that horrible F60 into the points and challenge Hamilton (who had a faster car) in the second half of the season for "most points scored in the second half" just shows the mans talent.

I personally don't like what Ferrari did to him in 2008 onwards....that's another story

But I think he would be second right now in the championship if he was at McLaren, but with more points than Button has.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Ray your just opening up a can of worms here.

It really doesn't matter how far Mclaren are behind Red Bull. Neweys car is just unbeatable at the moment and it's through mistakes from RB drivers that have cost them in both China and Canada this season.

TBH - I think Raikkonen wanted out in 2010 anyway as he likes to live the high life. I can never see him coming back to F1 and think NASCAR is probably a perfect fit for him now.

He's doing more Rallying than NASCAR :thumbsup:
 

Sarinaide

Banned
I think F1 would have been even better with Kimi, especially if he was back at McLaren....but McLaren has changed since he left so who knows.

He doesn't get into shunts or get penalties, when he's having a bad race he picks up points, I for one don't think he ever was "lazy" if he could consistently get that horrible F60 into the points and challenge Hamilton (who had a faster car) in the second half of the season for "most points scored in the second half" just shows the mans talent.

I personally don't like what Ferrari did to him in 2008 onwards....that's another story

But I think he would be second right now in the championship if he was at McLaren, but with more points than Button has.

I think Ferrari got rid of the wrong driver to be honest.
 

HammydiRestarules

Di Resta fan :).
Contributor
Big question is would Raikkonen have wanted to stay at Ferrari with Alonso as his teammate?

I don't think he would have, just because i think he'd done the whole two big drivers thing at Mclaren with Montoya and that didn't work out too good either.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Thing is, would Ferrari listen to him when they have Santandar funding them and paying for one of their drivers salarys?

Ferrari seemed keen on getting rid of him since 2008 at the start when the Alonso rumours started, I think the question should be more likely this:

Would Alonso went to Ferrari a year early if Raikkonen was his team-mate?

Going back to your original question I think Raikkonen would have stayed, Raikkonen-Alonso in Ferrari, wanted that to happen, even though I like Massa a lot.
 

riskitall

Points Scorer
I think F1 would have been even better with Kimi, especially if he was back at McLaren....but McLaren has changed since he left so who knows.

He doesn't get into shunts or get penalties, when he's having a bad race he picks up points, I for one don't think he ever was "lazy" if he could consistently get that horrible F60 into the points and challenge Hamilton (who had a faster car) in the second half of the season for "most points scored in the second half" just shows the mans talent.

I personally don't like what Ferrari did to him in 2008 onwards....that's another story

But I think he would be second right now in the championship if he was at McLaren, but with more points than Button has.

im not sure mclaren had the faster car.ferrari won more races in 07 and 08,so it debatable.

and massa won more races than kimi in 08....6 wins to 2.
 
Big question is would Raikkonen have wanted to stay at Ferrari with Alonso as his teammate? I don't think he would have...

I don't think Raikkonen cared who he partnered. He was willing to partner Lewis for 2010 but McLaren didn't want to pay him what they were paying Lewis. Also, he didn't care if Alonso joined...it was Alonso not wanting to parnter Raikkonen for the same reason as to why he left McLaren at the end of 2007. Alonso doesn't like a team's efforts being diluted.

There are three main reasons why Ferrari didn't keep Raikkonen: 1) His results in relation to Massa didn't justify their absolutely gigantic salary differential; 2) Getting rid of Felipe' after his near-fatal accident in one of their cars wasn't in congruency to the image they cultivate with respect to their injured drivers, even historically; 3) Alonso wanting (and Santander wanting him) to come one year earlier.
 

Hamberg

FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :)
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There are three main reasons why Ferrari didn't keep Raikkonen: 1) His results in relation to Massa didn't justify their relative salary differential; 2) Getting rid of Felipe' after his near-fatal accident wasn't in congruency to their image; 3) Alonso wanting (and Santander wanting him) to come one year earlier.

Is that factual or your opinion Ray?
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
im not sure mclaren had the faster car.ferrari won more races in 07 and 08,so it debatable.

and massa won more races than kimi in 08....6 wins to 2.

I was talking about 2009 not the first half of the season but the second :thumbsup:
 
Hamberg, Raikkonen's salary was about 5 times Massa's but his results weren't hands down superior. We know that Ferrari dumping Massa following his near fatal accident in one of their cars would have been a global P/R nightmare, especially after that near-win of the 2008 WDC relatively fresh in peoples' memories.

Why, what do you think the reasons are?
 

Hamberg

FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :)
Contributor
I don't know for definite. I'd hazard a guess that like McLaren Kimi's lack of sponsorship appeal didn't fit in with the corporate image of Ferrari and that they wanted Alonso but couldn't get him to sign up on a lesser salary to his team mate.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
I think Kimi would have done a fine job, perhaps even better than Lewis, if he was motivated to do so!

The man is an excellent driver, but unsuited to the environment of Formula One from a personal perspective.
 
Hamberg, the only reason he isn't in F1 is because McLaren didn't want to pay him what they were paying Lewis. That and he also wanted to go Rallying.
 
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