Lotus Renault

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
The BBC is running an article claiming Lotus will switch from Cosworth to Renault power for 2011.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8808856.stm

With the rumours about Williams wanting to move away from Cosworth it sounds like their customers aren't too pleased with their power units although Lotus getting Renault engines probably limits Williams opportunities.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
We were talking about Williams on the other thread.
They have a 3 year contract so I can't see them or Lotus being able to switch for at least another 2 years.

Well, not unless they're willing to pay the penalty that is no doubt in the contract.
 

RickD

Pole Sitter
Maybe Cosworth will get special dispensation to up the power like Renault and others have had..
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
This rumour has been floating around for a couple of weeks now and has been denied by both Lotus and Cosworth however I don't really think that counts for much.

I reckon a lot will depend on where Lotus finish in the constructors championship. If they make it into 10th place then the money (reckoned to be worth something in the region of 15 million) may be enough to buy there way out of the Cosworth deal.

I can really see why they would want to change but they really need to sort the chassis out before the engine. Once they start to show a turn of pace that edges closer to the Williams (which won't be possible this season) then they would have improved the chassis enough for an improved engine to make more of a difference.

The other issue is that this needs to be sorted out ASAP because while they keep saying that all thoughts have turned to next years car, to not know what engine you are going to stick into it will make the design of the rear end of the car pretty speculative.

At the end of the day, I can see Williams changing supplier because they still have the clout to do it but I think that all three new teams are pretty much stuck with Cosworth in the short term.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Will this year is over for Lotus as they confirmed they applied their last upgrade at Silverstone.

So from now on I expect Lotus to hold station or even go backwards, depending on what the other teams around them do.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Brogan said:
Will this year is over for Lotus as they confirmed they applied their last upgrade at Silverstone.

So from now on I expect Lotus to hold station or even go backwards, depending on what the other teams around them do.
Doesn't surprise me really. The big problem is that it's only going to take one result for one of the new teams to take that coveted 10th place and the bag of money that goes with it. I'm sure all three of them are looking at that position and hoping that if falls in their lap because it could be vital to next years budget.

Imagine a race for example, where we have a sudden rain storm which sends a few cars off the track. The odd failure here and the odd coming together of two red bulls there and suddenly an HRT could find itself in tenth place and that one point could get the team millions of pounds even though the bulk of their season has been a write off.

It's a very small gap between success and bankruptcy at that end of the pit lane.

All three teams have a long way to go.
 
N

Nomad

Guest
You had me scared!!! I was afraid that someone on here got hold of a Lotus Type 47 that ran. That would mean that they would get hurt sooner.
 

Flood1

Rookie
I think Lotus and Renault could share some road car technology that would be useful to both of them in the marketplace. Lotus could no doubt use Renault drivetrains in their road cars, for example. Cossie does not have any road car relevant technologies, so I suspect a Lotus/Renault deal would be much more broad than F1 only.
 

Flood1

Rookie
Nomad said:
You had me scared!!! I was afraid that someone on here got hold of a Lotus Type 47 that ran. That would mean that they would get hurt sooner.
If I remember correctly, the 47 had a 1470cc Renault engine, although I remember some being raced with a 1600cc Cosworth/Ford. Nomad, is that the car that had the snorkles?

Odd looking car at best and I can't remember any great racing victories, but I could easily be wrong about that.
 
N

Nomad

Guest
I can't remember what the non-Renault engined car was called but the T47 was the "Racing Model" I drove one a couple of times and thought it was crap. Mind you, not as bad as the Lotus 30 or 30/40 (which was a 30 with 10 more problems). That one tried to kill me numerous times. I don't remember the snorkel but it was lower than a gator's armpit. The one I drove did not discard parts all over the course but they had that reputation.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Seem to remember that some T47's were modified and renamed Europa.

Regarding Cosworth engines I have owned and raced several variants of the engines.All of them had more outright power than comparable engines, but at a cost.
All of their performance was right at the top of the rev range.They also had a very narrow power band, which affected their drivability. The CA2006 for instance derived its performance from the fact that it would rev to 20000 rpm.
The current Renault engine I suspect does not have more outright power.It is widely accepted as being short on power compared to Mercedes and Ferrari.

But in racing terms it is more "tractable" which makes it much easier to find the sweet spot in set up performace as both Red Bull and Renault have shown this season.

I was glad to sell my Cosworth engine, and replace it with a Weslake Ford BDA and eventually a BDE.
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
Flood1 said:
I think Lotus and Renault could share some road car technology that would be useful to both of them in the marketplace. Lotus could no doubt use Renault drivetrains in their road cars, for example. Cossie does not have any road car relevant technologies, so I suspect a Lotus/Renault deal would be much more broad than F1 only.
Surely they have the Duratec range, no?
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
sportsman said:
The CA2006 for instance derived its performance from the fact that it would rev to 20000 rpm.
The current Renault engine I suspect does not have more outright power.It is widely accepted as being short on power compared to Mercedes and Ferrari.

But in racing terms it is more "tractable" which makes it much easier to find the sweet spot in set up performance as both Red Bull and Renault have shown this season.
But all the engines were designed with unlimited revs in mind weren't they?

I actually thought Williams performance was testament to Cosworths engine this year.

sportsman said:
I was glad to sell my Cosworth engine, and replace it with a Weslake Ford BDA and eventually a BDE.
1800? the sight of any BD series engine makes me weak at the knees. What cosworth??

Lotus built the cylinder head for one of my cars, you've got me wondering if that was based off some Cosworth design now with what you say about being top heavy.. it doesn't start flowing until above 5k, then screams to 'safe' 10k. Actually tested to 12 i believe! that is, if the bottom end all stays together, which it can't :embarrassed:
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Grizzly said:
What cosworth??
Lotus built the cylinder head for one of my cars, you've got me wondering if that was based off some Cosworth design now with what you say about being top heavy.. it doesn't start flowing until above 5k, then screams to 'safe' 10k. Actually tested to 12 i believe! that is, if the bottom end all stays together, which it can't :embarrassed:
The last one I owned was an FVA.And regarding bottom ends,I know to great cost.
Also a habit of throwing rods quite regularly.
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
sportsman said:
Grizzly said:
What cosworth??
Lotus built the cylinder head for one of my cars, you've got me wondering if that was based off some Cosworth design now with what you say about being top heavy.. it doesn't start flowing until above 5k, then screams to 'safe' 10k. Actually tested to 12 i believe! that is, if the bottom end all stays together, which it can't :embarrassed:
The last one I owned was an FVA.And regarding bottom ends,I know to great cost.
Also a habit of throwing rods quite regularly.
Fascinating stuff, DFV fore-runner? forgive me, you were probably racing this before i was even thought of. My combination of a rev happy head and under square bottom end is not a good one to say the least, but i enjoy the challenge.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Christ makes me feel old. My first car racing experience was in 1967 driving a Broadspeed Ford Anglia
But apart from cars, I raced bikes and sidecar outfits.Sidecar outfits are still my greatest passion.

As matter of interest, Nomad is even older than me.He raced chariots.
 
N

Nomad

Guest
Quite successfully!!!

My first experience driving a race car was in a Cadillac-Allard; notice I did not say racing it. I learned to drive a street car in it. Before that I had driven tractors and some other farm equipment. I was 12 years old.
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
Sportsman - '67 you were racing? well, my racing idol died a week or two after my 10th birthday. That was May 94.

Nomad - Did Shelby get his hands on the Allard at some point? I have one or two of his 'later' models at home...

Some jealousy creeping in here on my part.. high jack over, where's the ''old guys tell the young guys stories'' thread?
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Grizzly said:
Sportsman - '67 you were racing? well, my racing idol died a week or two after my 10th birthday. That was May 94.

Nomad - Did Shelby get his hands on the Allard at some point? I have one or two of his 'later' models at home...

Some jealousy creeping in here on my part.. high jack over, where's the ''old guys tell the young guys stories'' thread?
You mean back in my day type of things.I do try to avoid that, but yes.I was born in 1945 and my first live F1 GP was the British GP at Aintree at ten years old.
I raced bikes in 1962.I was a member of the BSA Bantam racing club.Mostly ex GPO D1 bantams which tuned well and a good one could 80mph.Couldn't stop but who cared at 17.
I have always been an active competitor, but had to retire three years ago, health problems made it impossible for me to get the medical clearance for a competition licence.
Still get in a few laps in my old Golf which I raced, and sold on to youngster in the club.

Don't start Nomad off.He was racing when I was still in diapers.
 
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