Lewis vs Pastor

[racecub]

You cant jump out the way of drivers becuase they are vindictive dangerous hotheads. Should Lewis or any othe driver wave him past next time? The biggest problem in my view is with the FIA/stewards. This guy has already swerved deliberately into competitors (Lewis and Perez) out of pique/temper? This was not to gain a place or in the heat of battle and once it was not even in a race at all. That those incidents went unpunished or insignificantly punished is unbelievable in my eyes, especially when we seee draconian punishments handed out for minor transgressions that have no impact on other drivers. He should have had a race ban after the Perez incident or at least have been driving on probation with the race ban activated next time he takes a driver out or acts vindictively (which would have been Sunday). He was let off so he'll do it again. I think he has a psychological problem and is a danger.

 

[ACP2010]

For me, the most disappointing aspect of yet another sorry exhibition of unsportsmanslike behavior from Maldonado is the inconsistency of the stewards penalties.

Compare and contrast the two Williams drivers at this same race with the same stewards. Maldonado got the same penalty for crass stupidity, driving into a car he could see directly ahead of him as his team mate Bruno Senna for lightly tagging the nose of a typically brain-in-neutral Kobyashi trying overtake through an obviously closing gap. Shades of Spa last year with Lewis.

Question, is Senna being penalised by association with his uncle's uncompromising relationship with the stewards?

Why is Maldonado being allowed to get away with using his car a weapon with little or no censure?

Isn't it about time there was a permanent team of stewards, I'm not sure how you would select them or indeed ensure impartiality, but the situation has got beyond a joke with this one driver, he will hurt somebody one day.

Only positive, Lewis seems to have taken on the message that anything you say will be used against you.

 

[F1ang-o]

ACP2010
Re Steward question ...I said a while ago & some agreed, that I thought this happened to Lewis Hamilton ... some disgruntled driver stewards remembering that they hadn't got the better of Ayrton Senna & seeing shades of him in Lewis' driving. Some last year... Monza?.., I thought Schumie on Lewis was....not acceptable. Ross warned him twice.....why didn't Macca make waves....what would Red Bull have done if it was Vettel or Ferrari to Fernando..........there would have been uproar..
It got to the point last year were it seemed to be ...oh it's LH don't bother.. Spa ..Kobi took LH out ...I don't think the stewards even looked/mentioned it being investigated, it certainly didn't come up on my TV screen. It is no wonder LH was getting edgy last year. Bullying needs to be stopped, Hard, Fair driving is great, keeping within the rules..rules have been hard fought for...for the protection of drivers, Marshalls etc.

I'm Sorry......Your question was about Bruno, but I've answered it re LH.. I misread it, this is a thread about Lewis v Pastor...a Freudian slip?

I agree about Bruno too...

 

[F1Yorkshire]

I think the penalty was the right one to go for. The additional 20 seconds stripped him of any points gained in the race, this doesn't compensate Hamilton and McLaren but means Maldonado wasn't rewarded for stupidity.

A 5 place grid drop in the next race is not really a big penalty. With the right strategy it is easy to overcome a deficit of a few places.

A better penalty would be to either exclude him from the next race or make him start from the back of the grid but what precedents have been set for those giving out those punishments.

 

[F1ang-o]

F1Yorkshire
A precedent should have been set last year....Spa after Quali? when Pastor took a swipe at Lewis car & caused some damage to front/wing....The BBC commentary...Edit Martin Brundle said PM should be sent home..not allowed to race the next day. Pastor got a paltry penalty?...& raced. He will continue to bully, whilst the stewards allow it. I agree a grid drop iis not good.....IMO for the drivers in front of him, A 4 race ban seven years ago has made no difference to him.
.

 

[teabagyokel]

I wouldn't think this incident would be worthy of a race ban. However, had I been stewarding he probably wouldn't have started the race having driven into Perez deliberately in Monaco.

It is worth noting that he lost 15 points at that moment though.

 

[FB]

There have been many similar incidents involving lots of drivers which haven't resulted in a ban I can't really fathom why this one should be any different. Senna raced in Australia in 1990 after pulling a move which not only ruined the race of him and Prost but also put their lives at risk. I don't see anything in Pastor's move which endangered the life of anyone it was just very clumsy.

I would also suggest, in his defence, that he came back onto the track where he did to avoid the speed bumps put in the run off area and you have to question why there are speed bumps, which could damage the car, in a run off area. Isn't the point of such an area that you can make a mistake and then rejoin the race without fear of damaging the car?

Truly, I don't think any of us know whether this was cock up or the red mist. I also genuinely believe that Hamilton was rather foolish to try and defend against anyone given the state of his tyres. As others have pointed out, better to have got some points than no points at all.

Ho hum, such is motor racing.

 

[teabagyokel]

Yeah, but I can assure you that after that stunt, if I was stewarding Senna would have picked up a year or two as a ban.

 

[Fenderman]

With my evil hat on, I stand by WitchHunterGeneral (a-not-necessarily-comedic-character)'s assessment.

 

[The Artist.....]

I see the witch-hunt against Maldonado is continuing.

I suggest that anyone who suggests that Hamilton (or his tyres) was completely blameless watch the first lap of the race again, and watch the identical situation between Massa and Rosberg. You are NOT allowed to crowd another driver off the track. If they are alongside you, you have to give a car's width between your car and the edge of the track.

(Sporting regulation 20.4 clearly states:
20.4 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.)
As the Sky TV coverage ably showed, Hamilton's car moved right to the white line whilst Maldonado was next to him. As always, it's worth thinking - if there was a wall there, Maldonado would have been forced into a crash.

(This is not to suggest that the crash was anyone other than Maldonado's fault.... However, the fact he was off the track in the first place was not necessarily his fault!)

 

[GeoffP]

You can claim that Maldonado was a victim of a set of circumstances over which he had limited control, but my perspective does not see that.

You can claim that Hamilton was foolish to fight a losing battle, and I would understand, but disagree, these are racers - when Raikkonen dropped back in China he fought the first place drop just the way Hamilton did.

But no, the implication of the racing line is the expected choice of direction, and that is the course Hamilton took. This is the action any racer would have taken. Admittedly Webber's famous pass on Alonso at Eau Rouge last year was made with the car off the circuit, but at least he completed the move safely.

I honestly don't know how far to opinion should sway against Maldonado, but bearing in mind his recent history of deliberate contacts I think the issue most have is we do not see that he is having those conversations that Hamilton was receiving a couple of years ago for aggressive race craft. In the absense of any authority making their feeling known people are bound to react.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

Love the Webber interview... "should he have pulled out?"....

"yeah....ah.....pffffffflllllllll.... ssssssshhhhhhh....... Maldonad-probably"

classic...

 

[Dario Resta]

Re -20second penalty. It looked like he lost steering control by driving over the curb as explained by KC in the second video Keke posted. It is possible the stewards accepted this as mitigation and decided not to come down hard on him although he was barely repentant in his post race interview. It's a joke really. Once guilt was established, the appropriate penalty should've been applied

I have to say, that considering the penalty Schumacher got for ending his and Senna's races in Barcelona, Maldonado got off VERY lightly.

 

[KekeTheKing]

There have been many similar incidents involving lots of drivers which haven't resulted in a ban

No doubt about that. If you could look at this as an isolated incident then I can't imagine anyone calling for a race ban. However, that is certainly not the case....

In his short career, Pastor Maldonado has drawn the ire of a good portion of the paddock. Drivers and pundits have been quick to condemn his actions on a number of occasions. They've called for stiff penalties, yet he continues to get off with a slap on the wrist. Some people have conveniently forgotten these incidents and want to act like the only reason Maldonado is coming under severe scrutiny now is because of who his latest victim happened to be. Well, this seems like an appropriate time to take a look at some of Pastor's previous indiscretions.

Let's start with his most famous chop at Spa 2011

He was getting a little better at it by the time he tried it again at Monaco 2012.

Here's one for the folks that frown upon "crowding" and require a "car's width".

This was a beauty here. Diving across the track on the entry to Copse.

These are just some minor run-ins, of which there are several more

Hopefully this will clear up the misconception that people are over-reacting to this latest "maneuver". Maldonado has displayed a pattern of wanton disregard for other drivers his entire career. The notion that he is being unfairly attacked by rabid Hamilton fans simply doesn't carry any weight. The video footage tells you everything you need to know about Pastor's driving and the respect he affords his fellow competitors.

And as for Hamilton "letting him go", well let's see what that looks like. Rather unsatisfying I'd say...

I would not, and could not support a driver that simply ceded a position like that.


EDIT - If videos are down, they'll be back shortly

 

[Mezzer]

Let's be perfectly honest, if the tables were turned everyone would be calling Lewis a plank. If Maldonado had employed his brain he'd know he'd safely pass Hamilton in the same spot the next lap. Come on, peeps, this was one of the easier ones to analyse.

 

[The Artist.....]

I love how this is, as usual, a sustained attack on one driver. I would advise you all to look at this video:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18571606
At 1.00 in, you see the battle between Hamilton and Grosjean. This is identical to the Maldonado incident, other than the fact that Hamilton left enough room between his car and the edge of the track. Had Hamilton done this then 2 things could have occurred. Firstly, he would have had the opportunity to use greater pace round the outside of Maldo on the left-hander. Secondly, Maldonado wouldn't have been forced off the track.

Furthermore, I don't know where anyone expects Maldonado to go. As FB points out, the other option was to go over the speed bumps, which would have likely had the same effect, and launched the car! Given the direction the car was pointing when it left the track, and the position of the speed-bumps, the two options were: rejoin the track where he did and hit Hamilton, or launch over the speed bumps, damage his car and hit Hamilton. Which would you choose?

My final point is that if you want to villify Maldonado, then you have to villify Hamilton too. Last season, he was involved in more incidents than almost any other driver. Please, show some consistency. Villify Maldonado? Fine, but be sure to make a balanced presentation of the other drivers too!

 

[ACP2010]

I see the witch-hunt against Maldonado is continuing.

You are NOT allowed to crowd another driver off the track. If they are alongside you, you have to give a car's width between your car and the edge of the track.

(Sporting regulation 20.4 clearly states:
20.4 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.)

Quite right the witch hunt continues, the man doesn't consider it necessary to race within the rules.

All this started at Monaco 2011, where Lewis was incensed at his penalty because of this...

The Williams is clearly almost completely off the track on the INSIDE, so early was Maldonado's turn-in. Questions, how is this giving racing room, and how far from the regulations can you stray and still get the other driver penalised?

Answer.... weeellll..... it depends who the other driver is.....

 

[FB]

I think the cars width regulation was only introduced this year ACP2010

 

[ACP2010]

I think the cars width regulation was only introduced this year ACP2010

Never mind a cars width, how about forcing the other car off the road, more like what happened here, explain how Lewis was meant to back out of the manoeuvre whilst forced to brake on the very dirty track heading straight for the kerbs? At the same race, constrast with the overtakes by Lewis and Michael at St Devote and Loews respectively, each understood the meaning of racing room and fair racing, unusual for the both some may say, but a country mile from Pastor's standard of driving.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Well The Artist..... I guess you missed last season where more vitriol was poured upon Lewis Hamilton than any other driver in history. And the craziest thing is that all his incidents were basically recognized as 50/50 racing deals. He has never once blatantly swerved into a competitors car. The same can't be said for Mr. Maldonado.

As for your "speed bump defense", well that is just complete and utter rubbish. Numerous drivers (double figures no doubt) were able to negotiate BETWEEN the sleeping policemen. This has been a feature of the circuit since its inception and any driver worth his salt can get through there cleanly without launching their car.

And believe me, if any other driver had this amount of footage that testified to their disrespectful and reckless behavior on the circuit I would post it. If showing people the litany of incidents that a driver has racked up in 1 1/2 years of F1 racing is vilifying someone, then so be it. It's the video footage that does the talking anyway...