Last Day Battles

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
For some reason, I thought now would be a good time to make a post about all of F1's Final day battles. I make 25 Championships that have gone to the last day of the season. In typical fashion, I have split them into several categories, each of which describe a different kind of finish. I hope you find some interest. This would not have been possible without the information on Latest Formula 1 Breaking News - Grandprix.com or STATS F1.

My first category is not so much one of last day battles, but occasions where the Championship was decided on the last day when it was a foregone conclusion. I call it "With All Odds".

Italy 1956 - Juan Manuel Fangio vs Peter Collins
Juan Fangio led by 8 points from Peter Collins (and Jean Behra, who would drop points if he won hence was out of the Championship race). The Ferraris of Fangio, Castellotti and Musso qualified 1-2-3 with Collins in 7th. Castelloti and Musso led away from Fangio, but their incessant duelling destroyed their tyres and they were both forced to pit, with Stirling Moss taking the lead for Maserati. Fangio and Collins were in touch with Moss (and Harry Schell) until Collins pitted for tyres. Fangio hit problems though, and was forced to the back with a poor steering arm, which he retired. (Fangio's car was repaired and Castelloti finished it in 7th.) After Schell's retirement, Musso was expected to hand his car over to Fangio at his pit-stop, but didn't. Instead, it was 3rd placed man Collins who handed Fangio his car, in an act of magnanimaty that would make Rob Smedley blush. Musso took the lead from Moss but retired four laps from the end, elevating Fangio into second place and a title secured.


South Africa 1962 - Graham Hill vs Jim Clark
Jim Clark came into the 1962 finalé 9 points behind Graham Hill. The two lined up on the front row with Clark ahead, and Clark led off. He led for 62 laps of the race, until he had an oil leak which saw him retired from the race. Hill went on to win from Bruce McLaren and Tony Maggs of Cooper, and took the title.


Mexico 1967 - Denny Hulme vs Jack Brabham
Denny Hulme went into the finalé 5 points ahead of World Champion and team boss Jack Brabham. However, dropping points conspired against Brabham, so Hulme would need to finish only 5th if his boss won the race. Clark started on pole but a collision with Dan Gurney off the line left him behind Graham Hill and Chris Amon. After passing Moises Solana on lap 11 for 5th (Solana soon retired), Hulme moved one position behind his team boss, and stayed there to the end of the race. This became 2nd and 3rd for the Brabhams as Hill and Amon both retired before the end, but Hulme took the title.


Las Vegas 1982 - Keke Rosberg vs John Watson
Coming into the last race Keke Rosberg led the Championship by 3 points from the inactive Didier Pironi, and 9 points from John Watson. Rosberg, however qualified only 6th with Watson only 9th in the notoriously poor qualifier that was the 1982 McLaren. The Renaults of Prost and Arnoux led from the start ahead of Alboreto of Tyrell and Patrese of Brabham. Watson quickly overtook cars, being up to 3rd by lap 20, when Arnoux retired. Mario Andretti's retirement put Rosberg into 5th place a few laps later. Prost's lead was not to last the whole distance, as he picked up a tyre vibration which saw him fall behind Alboreto, Watson and Cheever. However, Watson could not make any progress on Alboreto and Rosberg's 5th place was never under threat from team-mate Derek Daly behind, so Rosberg took the title.


Japan 1996 - Damon Hill vs Jacques Villeneuve
Into the last race, Damon Hill had a 9 point lead over team-mate Jacques Villeneuve. Villeneuve took pole, but started badly and was down to sixth by the end of lap 1, with Hill leading from Berger. Villeneuve was running 5th when he retired when his wheel fell off. Hill won the race from Schumacher and Hakkinen and Murray Walker had to stop, because he had a lump in his throat!


Japan 2003 - Michael Schumacher vs Kimi Raikkonen
Looking for his sixth title, Michael Schumacher came in with a 9 point lead over young McLaren driver Kimi Raikkonen. Raikkonen needed to win with Schumi out of the points to take the title. However, Schumacher qualified only 14th with Raikkonen 8th after a qualifying rain storm. Rubens Barrichello took pole from Juan Pablo Montoya. Montoya led from the start but retired only a few laps in, giving Barrichello the lead. After the first stops, Raikkonen found himself 4th, until Fernando Alonso also retired. He got past his team-mate David Coulthard (who was on a three-stopper) but could not catch Barrichello, who took the win. Schumacher finished 8th after an almighty struggle in which he had to come from the back after a collision with Takuma Sato of BAR. However, his finish was irrelevant since Raikkonen did not win the race.


Brazil 2006 - Fernando Alonso vs Michael Schumacher
Schumacher came into the final race of 2006 10 points behind Fernando Alonso, needing a win without Alonso scoring to take the title. A fuel pick-up problem in Q3 saw him start 10th, with Alonso 4th. Coming through the field, Schumacher tripped over Alonso's team-mate Giancarlo Fisichella, sending him to the back of the grid. Schumacher recovered all the way up to 4th position by the end of the race in a wonderful drive. However, Alonso had settled in to 2nd place after the first pit-stop, and stayed there. The title was never going to leave Alonso's grasp.


The second category is where mechanical difficulties, usually culminating in a retirement, decided the Championship. I call it "Breakdown Trouble".

Italy 1950 - Juan Manuel Fangio vs Luigi Fagioli vs Guiseppe Farina
Juan Manuel Fangio entered the final race in the lead, with Luigi Fagioli 2 points behind and Guiseppe Farina a further 2 points behind for Alfa Romeo. Fangio started on pole ahead of Alberto Ascari of Ferrari and Farina. Farina took the lead in the opening lap, with Ascari forcing Fangio down to third. Fagioli started 5th but ran as low as 7th until the retirements of Sanesi and Ascari put him up to 4th. Fangio retired with a gearbox problem, and quickly took over the Alfa of Taruffi in 2nd place. However, this car retired 9 laps later. This put Fagioli into second, but rather than pressuring Farina, he was overtaken into third by Ascari, who had taken over Serafini's car. Farina's victory was enough to hand him the title.


USA 1959 - Jack Brabham vs Stirling Moss vs Tony Brooks
Jack Brabham went into the US Grand Prix with a sizable 5.5 point lead over Stirling Moss, who was 2.5 points clear of outsider Tony Brooks. Moss qualified on pole with Brabham in second place, Brooks qualified 4th behind Harry Schell (who had cut several corners with no-one noticing). Moss led away, whilst Brooks collided with 'Taffy' Von Trips in a sister Ferrari, putting him down to 15th. Moss retired on lap 5, leaving Brabham leading a Cooper one-two with Bruce McLaren. When Trintignant passed the recovering Von Trips on lap 24, this became a Cooper one-two-three. Von Trips engine went 4 laps from the end, putting Brooks into 4th. On the final lap, Brabham slowed in sight of the line (out of fuel) and had to wave McLaren on. McLaren won the race by less than a second from Trintignant and became the youngest Grand Prix winner (a record that stood until 2003). Brooks finished 3rd but needed to win, so Brabham was World Champion even if he hadn't pushed the striken Cooper up the hill and over the line.


Mexico 1964 - Graham Hill vs John Surtees vs Jim Clark
Graham Hill led the Championship by 4 points from John Surtees and 9 from World Champion Jim Clark. Clark started from pole and led away. Surtees started from 4th but after a misfire he was in 13th at the end of lap 1. Hill was 10th by the end of lap 1 and moved into third place, which would give him the Championship with Surtees in 5th. However, a collision with the Ferrari of Lorenzo Bandini sent Hill down the order and damaged his BRM. Bandini retook third place from team-mate Surtees (in blue and white Ferraris!). Clark was surprisingly set for the title when his Climax engine seized on the last lap. Gurney took the win, whilst Surtees was allowed past by Bandini to take the second place he needed to win the World Title.


USA 1974 - Emerson Fittipaldi vs Clay Regazzoni vs Jody Scheckter
Emerson Fittipaldi and Clay Regazzoni led the Championship each on 52 points, whilst Jody Scheckter was 7 points behind. However, in qualifying none of the main runners were to the sharp end, with Scheckter highest in 6th, Fittipaldi in 8th and Regazzoni in 9th. Andretti's stall on the grid in the Parnelli from third gave everyone else a position, with Regazzoni getting past John Watson on lap 1 as well. However, Regazzoni was passed by Watson on lap 2 and Arturo Merzario on lap 3, and was starting to form a train. By lap 14 he had been passed by Jochen Mass and Ronnie Peterson and he pitted. His team-mate Niki Lauda was holding up Scheckter and Fittipaldi, but Ferrari released Lauda to his own race. Regazzoni continued to struggle 4 laps down, but after Lauda's retirement (he had a broken shock absorber, and gave up when hearing that Helmut Koinigg had fatally crashed) and Scheckter's subsequent oil line failure, Fittipaldi's 4th behind Reutemann, Pace and Hunt was sufficient to win him the title.


South Africa 1983 - Alain Prost vs Nelson Piquet vs Rene Arnoux
Alain Prost led the Championship by 2 points from Nelson Piquet and 8 points from Rene Arnoux. Piquet qualified second behind Tambay and had team-mate Patrese shielding him from Arnoux and Prost in 3rd and 4th. Tambay had a poor start, however, and the two Brabhams went into the lead. On lap 8, Arnoux' engine seized and the Frenchman was out. Prost then took third from Andrea de Cesaris, but he retired of Turbo failure after completing 35 laps. Piquet needed only to finish 4th in the race, and slowed to keep his car in one piece. He was passed by Patrese and de Cesaris, but finished 3rd for the World title.


Australia 1986 - Nigel Mansell vs Alain Prost vs Nelson Piquet
Nigel Mansell took a 6 point lead over Alain Prost (who led Nelson Piquet by another point) into the final race of 1986. He qualified on pole, but a poor start saw the lead go to Ayrton Senna, who lost it again to Piquet before the lap was over. On lap 7, however, Piquet lost the lead to Keke Rosberg of McLaren, and when Piquet spun on lap 23, Prost had the McLarens in one and two, but Mansell was still on for the title. A puncture for Prost saw him drop back to 4th, however. Piquet got past Mansell for 2nd, which became the lead when Rosberg retired, at which point Prost passed an unresisting Mansell, who needed only 3rd place. However, on the next lap Mansell' s tyre exploded and he was out of the race. Williams pitted Piquet as a precaution, which saw Prost win the race from Piquet, and win the title.


In a subsection to this, there is one instance where the retirement was caused by an understandable withdrawal:

Japan 1976 - Niki Lauda vs James Hunt
Niki Lauda led the Championship by 3 points from James Hunt going into the Japanese Grand Prix. Lauda qualified 3rd with Hunt 2nd. Hunt took the lead from Mario Andretti on the first lap as did John Watson of Penske. Lauda finished lap 1 in 10th, but withdrew from the race on lap 2, siting the foggy and rainy conditions as too dangerous. After Lauda's horrific accident at the Nurburgring that year, he could not be blamed. He could have still won the title though. Hunt led till lap 62 until he was passed by the Lotus of Andretti and the Tyrell of Depallier. Hunt and Depallier both had tyre deflation towards the end of the race, and Hunt came out of the pits in 5th (needing 4th). Depallier and Hunt were both able to pass Clay Regazzoni of Ferrari and Alan Jones of Surtees to finish on the podium and deliver Hunt his title. Andretti won the race having lapped everyone!


These are the races where the man who took the title won the race, either to maintain a lead or to steal one away from his rivals. It has been christened: "Win the Battle, Win the War"

Spain 1951 - Juan Manuel Fangio vs Alberto Ascari
Juan Manuel Fangio led Alberto Ascari by 2 points coming into the final race of the season in Spain. Ascari qualified on pole ahead of Fangio and led away, with World Champion Nino Farina getting a jump on the Argentinian as well. Fangio passed both of them by the end of lap 4, however. Ferrari's choice of a 16" rear wheel was a mistake, causing numerous tyre problems which compromised their race. Fangio thus remained unchallenged with Alfa's 18" wheels, and won the race. Jose-Frolian Gonzalez finished second for Ferrari ahead of Farina. Ascari finished 4th, but would profit in subsequent seasons from Alfa's withdrawal at the end of this race.


Mexico 1968 - Graham Hill vs Jackie Stewart vs Denny Hulme
Graham Hill led the Championship by 3 points from Jackie Stewart and by 3 more from Denny Hulme. It was Jo Siffert who took pole position, with Chris Amon 2nd and Hill 3rd. Hulme would start 4th and Stewart 7th. However, the leaders got away poorly and John Surtees of Honda led away, but was behind Hill by the end of the first lap. Surtees fell back with an engine problem, and the lead switched early on between Hill and Stewart, with Siffert leading for a time on laps 22-24. Defending Champion Hulme had retired his McLaren on lap 10 with a suspension problem from 4th place. Stewart did not get past Hill for many laps, until a fuel feed problem forced him back though the field. The Scot finished 7th, Hill took the win and the title.


Japan 1998 - Mika Hakkinen vs Michael Schumacher
Mika Hakkinen came into the Japanese GP with a 4 point lead over Michael Schumacher. Schumacher took his Ferrari to pole (2 seconds faster than team-mate Irvine). At the start, Jarno Trulli stalled leading to an abort. At the second attempt, it was Schumacher who was relegated to the back of the grid. At the third start, Hakkinen led away from Irvine and Frentzen, with Schumacher all the way up to 12th. Schumacher's impressive progress saw him up to 3rd by lap 22. On lap 28, Tora Takagi's Tyrell collided with Esteban Tuero's Minardi leaving debris on the track, which Schumacher punctured a tyre on, forcing the German out of the Grand Prix. Hakkinen had won the title, and won the race from Irvine and Coulthard.


Japan 1999 - Eddie Irvine vs Mika Hakkinen
Eddie Irvine led the Championship by 4 points from Defending Champion Mika Hakkinen. It was Irvine's returned team-mate Schumacher who took pole, with Hakkinen 2nd and Irvine 5th. Schumacher, however, was beaten off the line by Hakkinen. Irvine was up to 4th as the third row passed the second, and with Olivier Panis' retirement, Irvine moved up to 3rd on lap 19. Schumacher was unable to challenge the Finn, with a Hakkinen win guaranteeing him the title. Schumacher was a minute ahead of Irvine anyway, so a switch was unlikely. Hakkinen crossed the line to win his second consecutive title.


Brazil 2007 - Lewis Hamilton vs Fernando Alonso vs Kimi Raikkonen
Lewis Hamilton headed into the final race with a 3 point lead over McLaren persona-non-grata Fernando Alonso and a 7 point lead over Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen. Felipe Massa qualified on pole ahead of Hamilton, with Raikkonen and Alonso on row 2. A poor start for Hamilton saw him behind both Ferraris at turn 1, and an ill-judged move on Alonso saw him drop into the midfield. Several laps later, a technical problem saw Hamilton (having fought back to 6th) drop back to 18th position. Hamilton's fight through the field was compromised by a 3-stop strategy, which left him in 7th at the end. Ferrari pulled Massa in for his second stop at a sub-optimal time, allowing Raikkonen to rejoin ahead of him and take the title by one point from both McLaren drivers.


Abu Dhabi 2010 - Fernando Alonso vs Mark Webber vs Sebastian Vettel vs Lewis Hamilton
Fernando Alonso headed into the final race with a 8 point lead over Mark Webber, 15 point lead to Sebastian Vettel and a 24 point lead to Lewis Hamilton. Vettel qualified on pole ahead of Hamilton, with Alonso in 3rd and Webber in 5th behind Jenson Button, who got past Alonso into Turn 1. A crash between Michael Schumacher and Vitantonio Liuzzi saw the Safety Car come out, and various drivers pit for prime tyres. Vettel lead away from Hamilton. All 5 leaders were slowing with graining, and Mark Webber came in for primes, coming out in 16th position. Both Ferraris pitted to cover Webber's tyre strategy, leaving Alonso behind early-stoppers Vitaly Petrov and Nico Rosberg. Vettel won the race, with Alonso unable to pass Petrov and finishing 8th, to give the German the title.


Abu Dhabi 2014 - Lewis Hamilton vs Nico Rosberg
Hamilton came into 2014's double points finale 17 points ahead of Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg, who took pole. However, his lead was short-lived on race day as Hamilton had a much better start, leading his team-mate. This lead was maintained through the first round of stops, when Rosberg lost ERS power and was compromised, finally dropping out of the top 5 on lap 35. Despite a challenge from Williams' Felipe Massa on option tyres in the final stint, Hamilton was able to take the win and the championship, with Rosberg insisting he continued to finish a lapped 14th.


Sometimes, drivers don't win a race to win the title, but take a slim victory from finishing somewhere in the points. When they get the points but not the champagne. When they "Just Do Enough".

Morocco 1958 - Mike Hawthorn vs Stirling Moss
Mike Hawthorn headed into the race 8 points clear of rival Stirling Moss, but the dropped points rule meant that if Hawthorn finished third with Moss winning (if Moss set fastest lap), Moss would take the title. Hawthorn qualified on pole but was beaten off the line by not only Moss but by team-mate Phil Hill. Hill went down an escape road, but retook 2nd by passing both Jo Bonnier and Hawthorn (who waved him through). Moss' team-mate Tony Brooks helped out by passing Hawthorn but he was to retire with a blown engine. Moss had set fastest lap, so it was necessary for Phil Hill to let Hawthorn back through to give him the second that just won him the title by a single point.


Las Vegas 1981 - Carlos Reutemann vs Nelson Piquet vs Jacques Laffite
Carlos Reutemann led the Championship by a single point from Nelson Piquet and by 6 from Jacques Laffite going into the final race of the season. Reutemann qualified on pole with Piquet 4th and Laffite 12th. However, after a poor start from the two leaders the contenders were together by the end of lap 2 in 6th (Reutemann), 7th (Laffite) and 8th (Piquet). Up front, Alan Jones led away, and would take the win unthreatened. Piquet would get past Reutemann on lap 18, and the Brazilian ran as high as 3rd behind Jones and Laffite. Reutemann was struggling and was passed by Prost, Mansell, Giacomelli, Watson and Laffite to finish 8th. Piquet was similarly unable to resist Prost, Giacomelli and Mansell passing him, and he finished 5th. With Laffite only 6th that was enough to hand Piquet the Drivers' title.


Portugal 1984 - Niki Lauda vs Alain Prost
Niki Lauda went into the final race of 1984 with a 4.5 point lead over team-mate Alain Prost. In qualifying, World Champion Nelson Piquet took pole from Prost and Ayrton Senna. Lauda qualified 11th. Piquet, however, started really slowly and was relegated to the back of the field. Rosberg's Williams and Mansell's Lotus both got the jump on Prost as well. Prost was past Mansell on lap 2 and past Rosberg on lap 9. Meanwhile, Lauda was making places up though the midfield, passing Eddie Cheever for 10th within the first couple of laps, and he was soon past Tambay for 9th. He was past de Angelis on lap 18, then Johansson and Alboreto on consecutive laps 26-27. Next was Rosberg for 4th on lap 30 and the Austrian passed Senna for 3rd on lap 33. Mansell's retirement on lap 52 delivered a one-two to McLaren and the title by half a point to Lauda.


Brazil 2008 - Lewis Hamilton vs Felipe Massa
Lewis Hamilton took a 7 point lead over Felipe Massa into the last race of the season with Hamilton needing to finish 5th to deny the Brazilian the title on home turf. For the third year running, Massa took the pole at home from Jarno Trulli and Kimi Raikkonen. A Safety Car was deployed for the first four laps, as the track dried. By lap 11, all had followed Giancarlo Fisichella's lead and come in for dry-weather tyres leaving an order of Massa, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen, Fisichella and Hamilton. The Englishman found little trouble in passing the Force India for 5th, and after his pit-stop Vettel dropped behind the McLaren to put Hamilton in 4th. This continued until a rainstorm at the end of the race, where everyone save the Toyotas pitted for intermediate tyres. This vaulted Timo Glock's Toyota ahead of Hamilton and Vettel, which became critical when the young German passed Hamilton with 3 laps remaining, putting Hamilton into 6th. Massa won the race from Alonso and Raikkonen. On the final lap, however, Toyota's dry tyres became insufficient, and on the last corner both Vettel and Hamilton passed Glock, putting Hamilton into 5th and getting him the title by a single point.


Brazil 2012 - Sebastian Vettel vs Fernando Alonso
Vettel headed into Interlagos with a thirteen point lead. At Turn 4 on lap one he was involved in a collision with Bruno Senna which saw him facing the wrong way and heading backwards. Meanwhile, Alonso climbed to third place behind the two McLarens, which would win him the title if Vettel stayed out of the points. Vettel quickly climbed back into the points, while Alonso went off and fell behind Hulkenburg for 3rd. Everyone pitted for intermediates except Button and new leader Hulkenburg before a Safety Car left Alonso in 4th with Vettel 5th. However, Vettel was passed soon after the Safety Car by Kobayashi and Massa. When the rain came out again, Vettel had already pitted for dry tyres and was dropped down the field, while Hulkenburg collided with Hamilton to put Alonso 2nd. This meant Vettel was 10th needing to finish 7th, but he passed Kobayashi, then Vergne for the required position, with Schumacher letting him into 6th, winning him the title.

Abu Dhabi 2016 - Nico Rosberg vs Lewis Hamilton
Rosberg lead the title race by 12 points, thus a podium place was sufficient for him to win the title. Hamilton lead the race off from the start from Rosberg up until the first pit-stops. An early spin from Max Verstappen lead the teenager to try a one-stop strategy on harder tyres than the front runners. He split the Mercedes for a while, but Rosberg was able to see him off at the second stop. By now, Sebastian Vettel had opted for a late stop, and he came out on super-soft tyres and started to catch the field. Much to the chagrin of Mercedes, Hamilton started to slow down in the "street" section, backing his team-mate towards Verstappen directly behind and Vettel, who caught and passed Raikkonen, Ricciardo then the teenager. Vettel attempted to pass Rosberg in the DRS zone but Rosberg resisted, finishing 2nd behind his team-mate to take home the laurels.


Interestingly, there are two additional cases where one driver has attempted to punt another one off the track, thus winning by attrition. Less surprisingly, it is the same driver who was involved on both occasions, which is why this is called "The Schu Kicks".

Australia 1994 - Michael Schumacher vs Damon Hill
Michael Schumacher led the Championship by a single point from Damon Hill. Schumacher outqualified Hill, but both were beaten to pole by part-time Williams driver and viewing figures' booster Nigel Mansell. A poor start from the only previous World Champion in the field, however, saw Schumacher lead Hill away. On lap 36 Schumacher went off the track sustaining damage, and he rejoined ahead of Hill. As Hill attempted to pass him into the next corner, Schumacher closed the door, forcing both into retirement. Academically, Mansell won the race from Berger as Schumacher took the title. Williams did not protest the move but three years later...


Jerez 1997 - Michael Schumacher vs Jacques Villeneuve
Michael Schumacher led the Championship by a single point from Jacques Villeneuve. In qualifying, Villeneuve, Schumacher and Frentzen all set a 1:21.072 lap in that order, since Villeneuve set it first he was on pole ahead of Schumacher and Frentzen.Villeneuve dropped to third from the lights, however, with Schumacher leading. Frentzen slowed to let Villeneuve past on lap 8, and Villeneuve chased Schumacher. Into lap 48, Villeneuve had caught up to only a second behind the German, and attempted an overtake. Villeneuve was inside and ahead when Schumacher steered into the Canadian's Williams, incompetently going off himself without causing sufficient damage to Villeneuve's car to stop him. Villeneuve was however damaged enough to slow and was passed on the last lap by both McLarens with Hakkinen taking his maiden victory. Schumacher was thrown out of the Championship after the FIA charged him, but bizzarely he was alowed to keep his results to his record.


I hope you've enjoyed this look back, and any comments would be appreciated. Unless they're just tirades at Schumacher (we've seen enough of those recently!)
 
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siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Given the recent upset over team orders, I think it ironic that several titles, those of Surtees and Hawthorne and at least one of Fangio's, came to those individuals through blatant team orders and nobody gave it a second thought then. How times have changed!

Lauda's win over Prost resulted from Jacky Ickx throwing the red flag and thereby ending the Monaco GP due to weather. As I recall, if the red flag had been deployed two laps later, Senna probably would have won his very first race (for Toleman!!!) with Prost being second. As it was, the race only received half-points. Those added two laps would have give Prost at least 6 points (maybe nine) rather than the 4.5 he actually received. That would have give him the title instead of Lauda!

Great posting, BTW.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Great article TBY and brought back many memories of the (in)famous last race battles I have been lucky enough to see.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
siffert_fan said:
Given the recent upset over team orders, I think it ironic that several titles, those of Surtees and Hawthorne and at least one of Fangio's, came to those individuals through blatant team orders and nobody gave it a second thought then. How times have changed!

It amazed me how many times that came up, and its amazing also how many times it is Ferrari. As Jerez 1997 proved (when Williams and McLaren both switched drivers) other teams do it, but Ferrari seemed to be pulling a switch on almost every occasion they won the title!

It seems that people aren't bothered about team orders if it is not for P1 & P2. No-one mentions Austria 2001 or China 2008 on Ferrari's charge sheet! Equally Germany 2008 is not generally held against McLaren. If the first driver is high profile and hence unpopular with some, it also helps. Seeing the usually popular Brazilians Barrichello and Massa move over for big time Charlies Schumacher and Alonso was not media-friendly, but seeing Salo move over for Irvine less of a problem. There are certainly divided moralities on this issue.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Great well reseached article TBY.
Couple of points (pun) stand out.Firstly the peculiar dropped points system in F1 at that time.Which mean't that by in the race, a driver could be in a worse position by finishing 3rd instead of 4th or similair.

Another point worth a mention is that in 1958 the year that Hawthorn won the WDC. Hawthorn was disqualified from the Portuguese GP for pushing his car on the track, which was against the rules.
Moss stepped in and interceded and Hawthorns was reinstated.
If Hawthorn had been disqualfied Moss would have been WDC instead of him.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
sportsman said:
Another point worth a mention is that in 1958 the year that Hawthorn won the WDC. Hawthorn was disqualified from the Portuguese GP for pushing his car on the track, which was against the rules.

Yes, another case of wonderful sportsmanship that you found in the days where everyone knew they were all in the same boat, fighting for life and limb.

I've concentrated on the last race of each series (except in 1976 when Lauda's accident has a direct consequence). There are many fantastic stories that preceded these events: Japan was probably the dullest event in 1999, Villeneuve's disqualification at Suzuka in 1997 is relevant and Hamilton's bonkers mistakes in China in 2007 could all be mentioned just from my (modern-leaning for obvious reasons) memory!
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
I dunno.I am not to sure being around all these years, is necessarily a good thing.
The first F1 GP I ever saw live was the British GP at Aintree in 1955.!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was just ten years old then.And to see these legends, Moss, Fangio etc is a priviledge I treasure.
The memories are great, but other memories if I compare myself now, to how I was all those years ago, are not so good.
I am sure that you understand what I mean.
Although only God knows how I have an eight year old son.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Actually, the only time team orders bothered me was Jerez in 1997, when there was an agreement between 2 different teams as well as an agreement within the McLaren team to let Mika H win. I really thought that that sort of collusion was over the top.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
My problem with team orders is the fact that the race result is manipulated.
Some people say that F1 is a team sport, which is true.The WCC is a team championship.
The WDC however is an individual drivers championship.In the most recent case ie Ferrari.They would have still had maximum WCC points if they had not switched positions.
The WCC points are what the FOM pay the team for.The WDC only has marketing value for the team.No actual cash reward.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
siffert_fan said:
Actually, the only time team orders bothered me was Jerez in 1997, when there was an agreement between 2 different teams as well as an agreement within the McLaren team to let Mika H win. I really thought that that sort of collusion was over the top.

Was that proved? I didn't know of any proof so I didn't include it!

Either way, it only occurred because Schumi went all harikari on Villeneuve, so in a sense that was his fault too.

Btw, at 2:59 on this video is Schumacher being a victim to team orders. So enjoy!
 

Sakari

Race Winner
teabagyokel said:
Brazil 2007 - Lewis Hamilton vs Fernando Alonso vs Kimi Raikkonen
Lewis Hamilton headed into the final race with a 3 point lead over McLaren persona-non-grata Fernando Alonso and a 7 point lead over Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen. Felipe Massa qualified on pole ahead of Hamilton, with Raikkonen and Alonso on row 2. A poor start for Hamilton saw him behind both Ferraris at turn 1, and an ill-judged move on Alonso saw him drop into the midfield. Several laps later, a technical problem saw Hamilton (having fought back to 6th) drop back to 18th position. Hamilton's fight through the field was compromised by a 3-stop strategy, which left him in 7th at the end. Ferrari pulled Massa in for his second stop at a sub-optimal time, allowing Raikkonen to rejoin ahead of him and take the title by one point from both McLaren drivers.
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Technical problem you say? :snigger:
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
I'd like a bit of evidence if I'm to update the post really...

I did not think it was human error in this instance. (Yes, human error did lose him the Championship, but not in this particular race).
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
I can see this one going the distance :D

As I recall a Spanish (go figure) website/newspaper said that Hamilton had selected neutral but this was never proven and was denied by McLaren and Hamilton (unsurprisingly).

The official reason was a glitch in the gearbox software.

Of course we all know it was part of a deal McLaren reached with the FIA to avoid further sanctions, in conjunction with keeping Hamilton out on tyres which were down to the canvas* ;)


* Apparently Bridgestone all but ordered McLaren to bring Hamilton in for a tyre change at China but they still refused.
 

Sakari

Race Winner
Brogan said:
I can see this one going the distance :D

As I recall a Spanish (go figure) website/newspaper said that Hamilton had selected neutral but this was never proven and was denied by McLaren and Hamilton (unsurprisingly).

The official reason was a glitch in the gearbox software.

Of course we all know it was part of a deal McLaren reached with the FIA to avoid further sanctions, in conjunction with keeping Hamilton out on tyres which were down to the canvas* ;)


* Apparently Bridgestone all but ordered McLaren to bring Hamilton in for a tyre change at China but they still refused.

You're right Bro.. this would go forever and I don't want to get into that debate.

F1 like any other sport is subjective - filled with passion and emotion.. just bringing in some Finnish perspective and passion into this thread ;)
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Brogan said:
As I recall a Spanish (go figure) website/newspaper said that Hamilton had selected neutral but this was never proven and was denied by McLaren and Hamilton (unsurprisingly).

I'm never going to be a reputable source of secondary information if I listen to Spanish newspapers on drivers who're not, for some reason, Alonso.

Brogan said:
The official reason was a glitch in the gearbox software.

Of course we all know it was part of a deal McLaren reached with the FIA to avoid further sanctions, in conjunction with keeping Hamilton out on tyres which were down to the canvas* ;)

* Apparently Bridgestone all but ordered McLaren to bring Hamilton in for a tyre change at China but they still refused.

Fantastic! Conspiracy theories. I'm going to go with the McLaren explanation because it is the most reputable, even if it is not necessarily believable.

I'm sure McLaren did not have a deal with the FIA, since it would have given Ron Dennis a lot of pleasure to see McLaren get the further sanctions and force the FIA to bluster about finding a pretext to charge McLaren when his driver held the trophy!


Sakari said:
F1 like any other sport is subjective - filled with passion and emotion.. just bringing in some Finnish perspective and passion into this thread

Well, this is the first Finnish passion to appear anywhere near the 2007 World Championship bout!

Then again, your guy won because of a lack of the passion that had torn McLaren asunder!
 

Sakari

Race Winner
teabagyokel said:
Well, this is the first Finnish passion to appear anywhere near the 2007 World Championship bout!

Then again, your guy won because of a lack of the passion that had torn McLaren asunder!

That time of the month ey? :D
 
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