Head To Head Jenson Button vs Sergio Pérez

[The Artist.....]

Senna's_right_foot
In which case, "You'd have to be the north side of mental" to suggest that Button did anything wrong in Bahrain.

I'm actually NOT trying to justify Button's actions at all, I just find it interesting that in Valencia, Hamilton was "allowed to take his racing line" - and didn't force Maldonado off the track, but in Bahrain, in an identical incident, Button was being "overly agressive" with his team-mate...

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

It's a huge stretch to claim Valencia was an 'identical' incident, but congratulations for finding an angle with which to bring Hamilton into a conversation about Button
Whitmarsh, Brundle et al all conluded both Perez and Button were as agressive as each other, with Button himself shying away from his in-car comments when shown the footage. Maybe you should bring it up with them.

 

[The Artist.....]

Senna's_right_foot - it's not a huge stretch at all.

In Bahrain, Perez was on the outside of Button, trying to overtake, and Button moved to the very outside of the corner, forcing Perez off the track.

In Valencia, Maldonado was on the outside of Hamilton, trying to overtake, Hamilton moved to the outside and forced Maldo off the track... I'm just commenting that a lot of the people who are condemning Button for being overly aggressive here also claimed that Hamilton was completely justified in Valencia. (There's also a lot of hypocrisy going the other way as well though)...

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

In Valencia, Maldonado was on the outside of Hamilton, trying to overtake, Hamilton moved to the outside and forced Maldo off the track...

Really? Hmmmm there's the huge stretch. I must have watched a different race, the one where Maldonado was behind, went round the outside off the track and came back onto the track straight into the side of Hamilton (and was given a 20 second penalty). Maldonado went off all on his own, and chose to come back onto the track out of control and plough into Hamilton. Perez had his front wheel alongside Button's rear and Button didn't give him room. Button was hardly expected to move over and let him pass but he could have given him room and stayed ahead. Incidentally, Button refers to 'banging wheels at 300kp/h' - when you look at the onboard footage from Perez of that particular manouvre, Perez doesn't deviate, it's actually Button who moves across as he's being passed. Again, as i've said, both were as aggressive as each other. I'm really not interested in applying double standards according to which driver is involved in the incident.

 

[The Artist.....]

And Maldo had his entire car alongside Hamilton, and was given no room. Same incident, just slightly lower speeds! (i'm not worried about the part when Maldo came back on to the track - that's clearly his (Maldo's) fault - but prior to that the incidents are very similar to the Button vs Perez)

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Maldonado was on the outside, and was behind going into the corner. Perez was on the inside. There's the difference. You do realise that by blaming Hamilton and saying the incidents were the same you're actually blaming Button? Like I said, take it up with Martin Whitmarsh, Brundle, Ted Kravitz, Alexander Rossi (who went through the incidents on the F1 Show) and even Button himself, they all disagree with you. I'm sure you can find something else to drag Hamilton into the conversation though

edit: you don't think Button moved over?

I'm not sure why you feel the need to bring Hamilton into the conversation. What does trying to apportion blame to Hamilton for something which happened last year achieve exactly? It smacks a touch of grasping at straws to be honest.

 

[The Artist.....]

Senna's_right_foot - watch the race edit - at approximately 1.38 http://www.formula1.com/video/race_edits/

I'm not trying to defend Button, just trying to point out the complete hypocrisy going on here!

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Hypocrisy? Paranoia more like.

 

[racecub]

I'm certainly not apportioning all the blame on Button. I'm saying it was both of them and Perez has no reason to apologise to Button. Both were aggressive, one in defence and one in attack. But this is your team mate. Perez was faster, and by holding him up Jenson cost both drivers and the team points. Perez risked the car when , for whatever reason , he touched the back of Button.
I applaud Whitmarsh for letting the drivers race, but then the responsibility shifts from the pit wall to the drivers. Button with all his experience should have let Perez past to attack Hamilton and saved himself an extra pitstop by ruining his tyres.

 

[Jen]

My first instinct was to say "bollocks", but because I am a reasonably measured individual I didn't.

If all the more experienced racers let their team mate past to attack another who they were quite capable of attacking themselves, there would be no racing as such.

I have always believed that the drivers were ultimately responsible for their own actions - but I also always factor in the given that they are racers and are there firstly for themselves and secondly for the team.

Whitmarsh was right. And apologies should not figure large in F1 racing!

 

[The Artist.....]

Maldonado was on the outside, and was behind going into the corner. Perez was on the inside. There's the difference.

Other than that Perez was on the outside...

You do realise that by blaming Hamilton and saying the incidents were the same you're actually blaming Button?

Yes, I know this perfectly well. Unless of course you believe that there was nothing wrong with Hamilton crowding Maldonado off the track at Valencia

Like I said, take it up with Martin Whitmarsh, Brundle, Ted Kravitz, Alexander Rossi (who went through the incidents on the F1 Show)

- it's not me who's suggesting there's nothing wrong with crowding another driver off the circuit!

edit: you don't think Button moved over?

I have NEVER said that

I'm not sure why you feel the need to bring Hamilton into the conversation. What does trying to apportion blame to Hamilton for something which happened last year achieve exactly? It smacks a touch of grasping at straws to be honest.

A lot of the people who are castigating Button and having a go are also the same people who said, without doubt, that Hamilton had done NOTHING wrong in Valencia. If it was ok then, then it's ok now. If it wasn't ok then, it's not ok now!

 

[racecub]

Jen I agree largely with all you say there Jen. But I didn't mean that Button should have let Perez by just because he's a more experienced driver, on this occasion I don't think he could have gone after Hamilton himself. He'd been slower than Perez all race. And at the end of the race Perez was closing fast on Hamilton. I think he might have got him if he hadn't been held up. All ifs and buts now though. Lets see what the next race brings.

 

[Hamberg]

The Artist..... your hypocritical snipes are slightly missing the point. Hamilton may well have taken an aggressive line as did Button, no hypocricy there and I love aggressive driving. Difference being, Maldonado wasn't Hamilton's team mate.

 

[pirateplunder]

For what its worth I agree, there's little difference between what Hamilton did and what Button did. They're team mates is the only thing I can think of. Both were aggressive, both overly aggressive as it turned out - hamilton because maldo (stupidly imo and clearly wrongly) took him out, button because they were team mates and in this case letting him past would have been the better choice as evidenced by their finishing positions.

However, I want racing drivers to be aggressive, but they also have to be a little bit sensible and weigh up the options. Lewis failed there because he didn't take into account what Maldo might do (an alonso, vettel or button probably wouldn't have taken lewis out in the same way). Jenson failed because he knackered his tyres and dropped back. The bigger issue I have is Button crying over it, blaming Perez and trying to exert some kind of authority in the team when, in this case, he had none and looking at it objectively he did the wrong thing more than Perez did. It was little more than an attempt to bully which seems to have failed.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I want the next race to start so that a different subject can be discussed....

 

[Kamui-FastestChefInTheWorld]

That's the problem with a 3 week gap. If every gap was 2 weeks, then the first week after a race is post-race discussion, then the second week is pre-race discussion. With a 1 week gap, there's no time, with a 3 week gap, the middle week gets pretty boring, to be honest.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I'm dreading the summer break in that case..

 

[Kamui-FastestChefInTheWorld]

But by then, there's various oppurtunities for mid season analysis, looking back and looking forward, oh, and barbecues

But now, having a 3 week break is, while probably good for my exam preparation, bad for watching F1.

 

[Incubus]

Over-aggressive McLaren team-battle?

Gee blimey, you young pups shud 'ad bin around in them Senna-Prost days... <cough> <splutter> <oldfart's voice>

 

[Lewywo4]

You'd have to be the north side of mental to blame Hamilton for Maldonado piling into the side of him in Valencia.