How Good is Sebastian Vettel?

[ExtremeNinja]

jez101

By no means do I think that win was a fluke. He had the best car on the day and he used it to best effect. Better effect than his teammate Bordais, who despite being three-time champion in champ car was never able to get to grips with F1 (which is how we should measure his quality as an F1 driver).

Great drive from Sebastian and the first of many similar victories. Seb knows exactly how to get the best out of a car when it is the class of the field and that is exactly what he did on that weekend. What he didn't do is take a shit-heap and beat a bunch of better cars and drivers. That would be ignoring the superior performance of that particular car relative to the competition on that day, which would be disingenuous.

 

[FB]

What he didn't do is take a shit-heap and beat a bunch of better cars and drivers.

Would you care to expand on the ExtremeNinja as I can't think of a driver who has done this in the 30 odd years I've been watching F1 (perhaps with the exception of Olivier Panis in Monaco in 1996 but that was a very bizarre race). Or is it simply that you think some are suggesting the Toro Rosso was crap, which it patently wasn't

Senna often out performed his car when at Lotus but it was far from being a shit-heap and, on occasions, was the best car on the track.

 

[jez101]

You might or might not be right ExtremeNinja ! It is hard to think of any time when Vettel has had a bad car, so it is hard to say whether he could beat the others in a worse car. He hasn't had the chance to show us either way

My opinion: Vettel has usually maximised his results, whatever tools he has been given.

He has consistently gotten the best result available to him on any given day. He has not made a lot of mistakes and when he is in front, he is simply awesome at managing the race. He gets himself into position to do that a lot because he consistently delivers in qualifying too. I think there have been occasions in Q3 when Vettel has transcended even an Adrian Newey car.

I don't see how he can possibly have done more than he has. He's 25 and he's already a double world champion. Maybe he was just in the right place at the right time, but getting the opportunity to be in Newey's Red Bull took some hard work and he deserves credit for that too.

It is just my opinion, but for me, he is either the best or the second best driver of my time. Senna is the other one and I am beginning to think that maybe Vettel has Ayrton's pace combined with Prost's racecraft, Alonso's consistency and Schumacher's ruthlessness.

I might be wrong. That's why I am dying to see him up against someone other than Webber and / or in a different car. Roll on 2014 and Vettel vs Alonso. That will define them both and we will find out if I am right or not. Until then...

 

[ExtremeNinja]

FB.

I think you have completely misunderstood my post to the point where you seem to have taken the exact opposite meaning as to it's intention. I have just reread my post and I'm not quite sure how you did that.

To be clear, my position is that Vettel had a fantastic race at Monza in 2008 at the wheel of a fantastic car, albeit that the car was fantastic on that particular occasion relative to it's competition and taking into account the conditions.

My intention in posting that opinion is to counter arguments that the Torro Rosso was an uncompetitive car and what Vettel did with it was magic. It was certainly an early sign of a future star but it was not a feat of epic proportions any more than Maldonado's win this year, for example.

 

[teabagyokel]

What he didn't do is take a shit-heap and beat a bunch of better cars and drivers.

If your opponent has a better car and driver, then you cannot beat them, no?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Is that a question or an answer? It appears to be both.

I'm not sure what I am supposed to glean from your comment either as it seems in no way related to any opinions I have shared or statements I have made, unless you have put two and two together and come up with one.

 

[teabagyokel]

So, ExtremeNinja, how good is Sebastian Vettel?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Very good. Very very good.

 

[Andyoak]

If ExtremeNinja doesn't mind...
Vettel was as good in 2008 as Maldonado is this year
Roll on Maldonado WDC

 

[Quintessentially]

Sir Jackie confirms what some of us have been saying -Link

 

[FB]

Jackie Stewart can go **** himself!

 

[Quintessentially]

Lol something making you sour

 

[The Pits]

Jackie Stewart is of course fully entitled to his opinions.

I have heard before that the best drivers end up in the best cars, (cream rises to the top?) so would it not therefore stand to reason that the best car ends up with the best driver? I don't see Red Bull bending over backwards to chase Alonso or Hamilton (Not Xavi and Maurice btw)

In short, I would say that Vettel is good enough. He has not been found wanting (except possibly 2009, but that was a different kettle of fish) and he has done everything that would be expected of him. No one could really have done more in the same car in the last few years really, I mean you cannot be higher than number 1.

 

[FB]

JYS is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else but he's knowledge of driving an car F1 is nearly 40 years out of date and to win in a car which is anything other than the best on the grid these days is almost impossible.

 

[sportsman]

2 of JYS WDC's came in a Tyrell 003 which was the class of the field.

 

[Il_leone]

JYS raced in the most competitive era of racing and there was more chance of getting killed than today

He even agrees with my view lets see how Seb does without Newey designing his car..many seem to forget Schumacher won all but 3 races in Rory Byrne designed cars !

 

[Il_leone]

The Tyrell JYS had was no way the clear class of the field ...the fact that Tyrell were never as competitive when JYS retired speaks volumes of his abilities

 

[Irishgreen]

The Tyrell JYS had was no way the clear class of the field ...the fact that Tyrell were never as competitive when JYS retired speaks volumes of his abilities

True, Williams was never the same after Villeneuve left.

 

[Il_leone]

Irishgreen slight difference between Tyrell of 70's and Williams of 90's

Tyrell - Stewart retired and was replaced with Schecketer and Peterson - thats two world class drivers and they still had a Cosworth DFV engine

Williams - their decline started when Newey and Renault left

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As for Seb I guess he will try and emulate his idol Schumacher and try and win 5 titles at Ferrari

 

[Irishgreen]

Irishgreen slight difference between Tyrell of 70's and Williams of 90's

Tyrell - Stewart retired and was replaced with Schecketer and Peterson - thats two world class drivers and they still had a Cosworth DFV engine

Williams - their decline started when Newey and Renault left

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As for Seb I guess he will try and emulate his idol Schumacher and try and win 5 titles at Ferrari

Only winding ll-leone but I wouldn't rule out SV doing that.