How Good is Sebastian Vettel?
- Thread starter teabagyokel
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And then the internet happened.
Il_leone
World Champion
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His reputation is based on always having superior equipment like some famous Spanish driver reckons he can't win in an inferior car
vettelnolies
Banned
Personally I think his reputation has to be based on his accomplishments.
Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime
Rookie
As I am new to this forum and do not wish to rock the boat in what are already turbulent waters, I will simply say this:
A lot of people on this forum, and on others - James Allen springs to mind - to be fair, do not like Vettel very much. I don't view this with any degree of suspicion or malice; to me it seems the logical outcome of over-abundant success. It is difficult for anyone to accept the success of someone they find to be unappealing for whatever reason, let alone to admit they are THE best, or perhaps better than their own personal favourite.
Having read this thread from start to conclusion, prior to this post, I have been amused by the at times barely restrained loyalism/hostility shown to various drivers and the arguments constructed to elevate or denigrate their achievements.
How good is Sebastian Vettel? Good enough to be in a position to win three driver's world championships in a row. Is he better than Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alonso? I have no idea. It's impossible to determine their relative merits as we are dealing with environments that are beyond our ability to accurately measure. Constructing qualitative or quantitative arguments in favour of one or the other is pretty pointless, and actually just boils down to 'I like so and so because of some characteristics I find to be appealing within my own frame of reference'.
Personally, I like Raikkonen. Do I think he is the fastest guy who ever set foot in an F1 car? No. Is he one of the fastest? Probably, and that's good enough for me.
A lot of people on this forum, and on others - James Allen springs to mind - to be fair, do not like Vettel very much. I don't view this with any degree of suspicion or malice; to me it seems the logical outcome of over-abundant success. It is difficult for anyone to accept the success of someone they find to be unappealing for whatever reason, let alone to admit they are THE best, or perhaps better than their own personal favourite.
Having read this thread from start to conclusion, prior to this post, I have been amused by the at times barely restrained loyalism/hostility shown to various drivers and the arguments constructed to elevate or denigrate their achievements.
How good is Sebastian Vettel? Good enough to be in a position to win three driver's world championships in a row. Is he better than Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alonso? I have no idea. It's impossible to determine their relative merits as we are dealing with environments that are beyond our ability to accurately measure. Constructing qualitative or quantitative arguments in favour of one or the other is pretty pointless, and actually just boils down to 'I like so and so because of some characteristics I find to be appealing within my own frame of reference'.
Personally, I like Raikkonen. Do I think he is the fastest guy who ever set foot in an F1 car? No. Is he one of the fastest? Probably, and that's good enough for me.
Welcome to the forum and well done for getting through this thread. I agree with much of what you say but...
If we take budgets and backroom dealings out of the equation, is this not how team principles go about selecting their drivers, albeit somewhat more intimately?
I think there is a bit of an "if I managed a team..." undertone to this thread.
If we take budgets and backroom dealings out of the equation, is this not how team principles go about selecting their drivers, albeit somewhat more intimately?
I think there is a bit of an "if I managed a team..." undertone to this thread.
Andrew Benson appears to think that our two German multiple world champions have been somewhat flattered by circumstances and by their equipment. Driver measure is not all down to the tables and statistics, he effectively explains. for the most part, I agree with his standpoint and the gist of his article.
Note: I know some of you will immediately dismiss this as it has come from Andrew Benson, but I suggest that we pay his opinions the same respect as we would posters on this forum.
Note: I know some of you will immediately dismiss this as it has come from Andrew Benson, but I suggest that we pay his opinions the same respect as we would posters on this forum.
If you consider the content on this site to be vitriolic then I recommend you don't visit any other sites on the internet.
I only learned the proper use of the word "vitriolic" yesterday through misusing it in describing another user on here. Funny how even in my thirties I stumble across words that I have never used in conversation. What is funny, is that i directed it at a hardened Vettel fan. He got quite upset and it was my bad. Ooops. 
Il_leone
World Champion
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You mean this article
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20669262
I know if it was a Hamilton vs Button comparison there would be a few hopping mad at his accusation of favouritism - thats another debate
But Benson has summed up this perfectly about this forum about Vettel's status against past and present drivers . Nuff said
mnmracer
Points Scorer
Andrew Benson should use the off-season to visit the good people of Encyclopaedia Britannica in Chicago, Illinois and have them explain to him what a double standard is. Bemoaning Alonso's bad luck while ignoring Vettel's is a prime example of such pitiful behavior.
The similar double standard attempts to burn Schumacher to the ground are even worse. He -correctly- states that it's not all statistics and numbers, but then uses that as to say that anyone who does have statistics and numbers is thus bad. Unless of course it's a certain 2-, 3- or 4-time champion.
Il_leone
Try and read again what he said.
All he says is Alonso is the yard-stick, he does not say Vettel is a bad driver/not a good driver.
The similar double standard attempts to burn Schumacher to the ground are even worse. He -correctly- states that it's not all statistics and numbers, but then uses that as to say that anyone who does have statistics and numbers is thus bad. Unless of course it's a certain 2-, 3- or 4-time champion.
Il_leone
Try and read again what he said.
All he says is Alonso is the yard-stick, he does not say Vettel is a bad driver/not a good driver.
Il_leone
World Champion
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Did I say Vettel is a bad driver? I 've been saying his achievements are down to Adrian Newey with a superior car and he has yet to reach the level of someone like Senna
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Not sure what bad luck you're referring that Vettel has had because being smacked by another car and still able to carry on in one piece seems very good fortune
or swiping his nose into a polystyrene under safety car is actually lucky given the slow speed everyone was going so he lost not that much time in the pits
having a safety car after fitting new tyres to close the bunch
Since when did Seb become an innocent victim of another driver's mistake/madness this season.
Name some notable mistakes Alonso has done this season compared to Seb for a start
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