F1 to go electric

[FB]

The EU has approached the FIA to look into setting up a variety of race series for electric cars - this will include go-karts, single seaters and a Grand Prix type series.

“We want as soon as possible to have new categories with new energy,” said Mr Todt, who added that a first season for electric car racing could come as early as 2013 and would be as global as the FIA could make it.

Quote taken from the FT website - see link below for full article.

Presumably in race refueling won't be allowed give the length of time it takes to charge a battery...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b500a78c-5e1c-11e0-b1d8-00144feab49a.html#axzz1IYA0oaAG

 

[sportsman]

There is already an electric car racing series.

http://www.evcup.com/
Former British Government Minister of Science, Lord Paul Drayson has extensive experience as a scienctific entrepreneur and an advocate of future energy technologies. He has served as a panel member on the FIA, been Honorary President of the MIA.
Drayson Racing is comitted to making motorsports a more environmentally responsibile eneavor. They have shown that they can compete against the best racing teams in the world using green technologies. Last year Drayson Racing finished third in the Intercontinental Le Mans Cup (ILMC) Championship is the first to earn a pole position in the Le Mans Series with a car running 100% bio-ethanol.

 

[FB]

Maybe you should send the link to Jean Todt, Sportsman?

 

[sportsman]

Perhaps I should.But there is so much happening in the "alternative power" development, much of which will eventually find its way into the car market that unless you look for it you will not find it in the usual F1 press reports.
As it happens its a particular interest of mine so I read many engineering magazines which cover these new technologies.
Also my 40 year old son has a very good friend who works for Williams Hybrid power in Qatar and keeps me up to date as to what is happening there.
Some amazing developments that will appear soon.
Don't forget that Alan Whittle was branded an idiot when he developed the jet engine for aircraft.
Conventional thinking was "an aeroplane without a propeller" don't talk daft.
Seems as though he did know what he was doing.

 

[FB]

What would be exciting is the speed these cars would accelerate at. Here's another interesting link, looks like the drag artists have been at it for years as NEDRA is celebrating it's 10th anniversary.

http://www.nedra.com/

Take a look at the video of Killacycle - 150mph and virtually silent. There is also a bike called Rocket which has run at nearly 170mph

 

[Brogan]

I'm no expert but the problem with electric powered motors is the battery, isn't it?

The faster you go, the quicker they drain so there are going to be some serious improvements required before anything like a GP race distance can be run at speed.

I suppose they could always have a metal strip running the length of the circuit and maybe some brushes attached to the underside of each car.
Oh wait...

I expect they'll need a soundtrack and speakers installed on each car too.
It just won't be the same with 20 cars leaving the grid and all you can hear is, well, nothing

 

[sportsman]

At the moment yes, battery life is the problem
But huge advances with ultracapacitors and KERS systems will mean that in a very short space of time these will be overcome.

 

[snowy]

They'll first have to get round all the patents that the oil companies have sewn up.

 

[FB]

Wireless power could be an alternative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_energy_transfer

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8165928.stm

Although if we're supposed to get problems as a result of the low level of radiation passing to and from mobile phones you have to wonder quite what this would do to our brains.

 

[sportsman]

Hmm interesting comments.
Me siting here doing this was the stuff of science fiction when I was twenty five.Nobody believed that would happen either.
My first mobile phone was as big as this.

 

[Grizzly]

I suppose they could always have a metal strip running the length of the circuit and maybe some brushes attached to the underside of each car.
Oh wait...

Oh yeah! Real life Scalextric, where competition winners get to hold the stick (down permanently, as is obligatory)

 

[F1Yorkshire]

Electric still isn't the answer. It's not the green technology that people make it out to be, the environmental cost of the batteries is huge as well as all the increased output needed from the power stations to fuel the electric engines. What you save in exhaust gases will be expelled into the atmosphere by the coal, oil and nuclear power stations.

I won't be convinced by the new energy plans unless they actually use a power source which can compete with the noise of current engines and be proved to actually make an environmental difference.

 

[Speshal]

Don't forget that Alan Frank Whittle was branded an idiot when he developed the jet engine for aircraft.

They already have the TTX on the Isle of Man for the 2 wheelers - very strange with no noise.

 

[Josephiah]

Electric still isn't the answer. It's not the green technology that people make it out to be, the environmental cost of the batteries is huge as well as all the increased output needed from the power stations to fuel the electric engines. What you save in exhaust gases will be expelled into the atmosphere by the coal, oil and nuclear power stations.

You're right - at the moment electric isn't the green saviour its made out to be, as most generation is still from fossil fuels. Large scale generation is generally hugely more efficient than lots of small engines, so there are some savings to be made; however, at the moment the cost (£ and environmental) of producing all the infrastructure probably cancels all that out.

On the other hand, thinking long term, what it does do is to start putting in place an infrastructure which can gradually make use of a larger and larger fraction of renewable inputs - a huge challenge which will take decades to work out, but which people in the industry reckon is quite do-able (once you get past all the bureaucracy!).

They'll first have to get round all the patents that the oil companies have sewn up.

One of the more disgusting and cynical pieces of nefariousness pulled by the oil companies - they went on a buying spree of lots of little renewables start-up companies, ostensibly so that they could "kick-start the renewables industry with their vast financial resources", but really so they could sit on the IP and prevent any challenges to their empire...

*hops off hobby horse*

I won't be convinced by the new energy plans unless they actually use a power source which can compete with the noise of current engines and be proved to actually make an environmental difference.

How about rocket engines like on the space shuttle? Lots of noise and only produces water*!

(*Okay, so you'd have to waste ridiculous amounts of energy first to produce the hydrogen, but hey, this industry is seemingly all about cover-ups! )

 

[RickD]

Electric still isn't the answer. It's not the green technology that people make it out to be, the environmental cost of the batteries is huge as well as all the increased output needed from the power stations to fuel the electric engines. What you save in exhaust gases will be expelled into the atmosphere by the coal, oil and nuclear power stations.

I won't be convinced by the new energy plans unless they actually use a power source which can compete with the noise of current engines and be proved to actually make an environmental difference.

Since when does Nuclear power expel gases other than steam?!? (Not a Nuclear power station that has been hit by a massive earthquake and then a huge tidal wave)..

 

[FB]

The main problem with electricity generation is the vested interests of the oil, gas and mining companies. The Severn barrage would have provided enough electricity to power to whole of Wales (open to correction on that one) but might have damaged the nesting sites of the seabird population - time to make a choice. Tidal power, wind and solar is mainly ignored but one which caught my eye, and I think deserves much more attention, is the effluent power plant in Didcot. This uses the "waste" from the town's people to provide enough electricty to power the town. Maybe burning methane isn't the greenest of solutions but we ain't going to run out of the feed stock.

Maybe Bernie's BS could be used to fuel an all electric F1 series?

 

[Grizzly]

Forget generating power, put that thought aside. The trouble is actually to do with the fact mining, extracting, shipping and processing the precious materials needed to make one set of batteries for, a Prius for example, does far far more damage than building, driving 150K miles, and scrapping your average Ford Mondeo.

Your all thinking about the end use, and that's not really the point!

 

[Josephiah]

Forget generating power, put that thought aside. The trouble is actually to do with the fact mining, extracting, shipping and processing the precious materials needed to make one set of batteries for, a Prius for example, does far far more damage than building, driving 150K miles, and scrapping your average Ford Mondeo.

Your all thinking about the end use, and that's not really the point!

Absolutely - I remember some quote (which may or may not be an exaggeration) saying that the lifetime savings of a Prius were less than the energy expended to ship the high-quality nickel for its batteries from the mines in Canada...

 

[Jen]

Your all thinking about the end use, and that's not really the point!

Isn't this true of all "green technologies" though?

 

[F1Yorkshire]

There's an article on bbc today discussing the future of electric vehicles and the effect the recent earthquake in Japan has had on thier ability to produce green electricity.