Technical F1 Engines - Where to for the future?

[F1Brits_90]

im just guessing, but this is a terrible indication of the how successful there 2026 project is going that. if people making the engine dont want it who will

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alpine-could-abandon-renault-engines-and-become-f1-customer-team-in-2026/10624346/

 

[cider_and_toast]

Could you imagine that in the car industry? At a BMW board meeting "This new engine of ours is a bit shit isn't it. Anyone fancy giving General Motors a ring and seeing if we can have one of theirs?"

 

[F1Brits_90]

Alpine cant be in the sport for long. as it appears to be dire over there. 2 drivers who seemingly are looking for the exit, Bruno Famin only in the job because im guessing when he took interim charge from Vice Principal of Alpine Motorsport, nobody else wanted it. now an engine they dont want

 

[FB]

There are so many companies using parts (or entire cars) from other manufacturers these days. Your beloved Lotus, cider_and_toast, used engines for pretty much anyone who would sell them to them, in F1 and there road cars. Lamborghini designed the light housings on the Diablo in such a way that it covered the Nissan logo and the Mercilago repeaters were off a MK2 Ford Focus . The Mercedes X Class is a Nissan Navarro in shell suit.

Alpine need another couple of teams to use the Renault engine to justify the Regie continuing to make the motors. Perhaps if the FIA would let another team or two onto the grid there might be some customers.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Your beloved Lotus, @cider_and_toast, used engines for pretty much anyone who would sell them to them, in F1 and there road cars

This is true. My Elan M100 is mostly a 1991 Vauxhall Astra with an Isuzu engine

The difference here is that Alpine are supposed to be Renault. That's the odd part. It's as odd as Ferrari having a Mercedes engine.

Though we all know the roles that Illmor and Mugen have played in the past getting their more famous owners up the grid.

 

[FB]

Although McLaren now have their own engine manufacturing business, albeit made with a partner who knows how to make engines, but still use Mercedes power units in F1. Meanwhile, a bubble gum flavoured drinks company and knocking up their own PUs, or so they say.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Wonder what you'd find if you whipped off the "Made in Austria" tally plate on their engines?

 

[F1Brits_90]

Wonder what you'd find if you whipped off the "Made in Austria" tally plate on their engines?

Honda 2021

 

[F1Brits_90]

with how close the season is looking, F1 is currently seemingly terrified of mercedes 2014 & red bull 2023 scenario & incredibly are thinking of ditching the 2026 engines & keeping the current ones, before switching to V10's

https://twitter.com/x/status/1902296590200488215

The F1 community has been discussing an emergency plan for the future for weeks. It sounds like a crazy idea, but it's getting more and more of a serious background. The current regulations are to be extended by 2 years in order to then switch directly to cheaper V10 engines that run on climate-neutral fuel. That would be a complete U-turn from F1's plans to make the sport even more attractive for car companies.

The starting point was a song of praise by F1 boss Stefano Domenicali for the V10 engine. Powered by climate-neutral fuel, it would be a solution for the premier class, Domenicali thought aloud. It is cheaper & simpler than the current drive units & also than the hybrid drive planned from 2026. It allows smaller & lighter cars.

What initially sounded like a dream of the future suddenly gained momentum. F1 management has other reasons to fear the big rule reform next year. It could jeopardize the balance in the field and thus the tension. With new cars, new engines, new tires and the great unknown e-fuels, there is a great danger that one person will interpret the new rules better than everyone else and then put on a show.

 

[Andyoak]

Surely scrapping all the development work, already done for the 2026 spec engines, is going to piss off all the manufacturers.

Much as I love the sound of a V10, there was still engine dominance back then.

Seems like a knee jerk reaction to a problem that isn't there.

 

[F1Brits_90]

Seems like a knee jerk reaction to a problem that isn't there.

i think its more of issue with how heavy & wide the cars have become when lewis hamilton made his debut in 2007 the car weighed 605kg, at the race start his ferrari weighed 910kg, only 100kg lighter than the Ferrari that won Le Mans

 

[Andyoak]

In that case revert to the 1950s.
They were a lot lighter and smaller than 2008.

 

[F1Brits_90]

In that case revert to the 1950s.
They were a lot lighter and smaller than 2008.

& alot more deadly

but i think the question has been answered are we technological showcase or are we entertainment. at the moment motorsport is taking on different challenges. F1 needs to find its own niche. WEC is working out your Hybrids & potential Hydrogen. Formula E is focusing on Batteries.

so No Need for F1 to go down them Roads so lets F1 go down the sustainable fuels road with a V8 -V10 Engine. you probably go from £60m a season to what £4-5m a season. your pleasing the fans who always say how much they miss the sound. & the cars will be alot more nimbler & look quicker

 

[F1Brits_90]

in my opinion the wrong decision. because i dont see why F1 need to be "pioneering" battery technology that WEC & Formula E already are. for me stick all that effort into sustainable fuels. & prove that you can run the any engines & be environmentally friendly

F1 bosses reject V10 engine return

Formula 1 bosses reject a proposal to reintroduce V10 naturally aspirated engines in the near future.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[FB]

Because, in 5 or 10 years time, no one will be using internal combustion engines and F1 cars will be about as relevant as steam engines.

 

[F1Brits_90]

Because, in 5 or 10 years time, no one will be using internal combustion engines and F1 cars will be about as relevant as steam engines.

but we arent going back to 90s. there is supposed to be a petrol & diesel new car ban around 2030-2035. sustainable fuels is the next frontier, look at what BTCC are doing this season

i disagree. i think cars are going vastly different in the future. we used to petrol or diesel. i can see hybrid, sustainable fuels, Hydrogen, batteries & 2nd hand petrol & diesel

 

[Andyoak]

I don't see hydrogen except for commercial vehicles.

Used vehicles generally get scrapped around 15 - 20 years old, so petrol and diesel will phase out by 2050. As the call for those fuels go down the filling stations will convert to charging stations.

Hybrids are likely to limp on in light goods vehicles past 2035 unless batteries get more efficient or the weight limit is increased to 5te without needing a tacho / change in license restriction.

Sustainable liquid fuels for niche small volume manufacturers (upto 2000 units pa at a push), but probably not enough to justify filling stations stocking it.

 

[Andyoak]

Although if you want to race these, count me in...

Farthest and fastest

LEWISTOWN — A local machine shop owner and his crew are taking their steam-powered vehicles even farther and faster. On July 13, Bill Barnes, owner of Barnes Machine Shop, and Team Steam, established two new records on his 1906 Stanley Steamer motorcycle at the Loring Timing Association in...

www.lewistownsentinel.com

 

[F1Brits_90]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1912476067819892947

 

[FB]

The only people lobbying for "sustainable fuels" (which are far from sustainable) are oil companies, who can then continue to control the market and supply. Fuel stations, as we know them, will disappear as other companies realise they can set up charging point in their car parks and make some additional cash whilst consumers take advantage of their other services. This will be places like fast food restaurants (most McDonalds now have charging points), supermarkets, so you can top up your car whilst you shop, coffee shops, garden centers, car parks etc, etc. making more and more people adopted EVs.

In the next 20 years the majority will transition to EV, leaving those using hydrocarbon fuels with a very limited way to get their fuel, creating the range anxiety the fuel companies spent years instilling in us about EVs for those using ICEs. Having recently bought an EV I realise that how you fuel it is different. You don't run it to empty and the refill like you do a petrol or diesel car. Whenever you stop somewhere you plug the car in and top the batteries up. Fast chargers can add 50 to 70 miles in 20 minutes, enough time to take a whizz and drink a coffee.

Hydrogen, apart from a few specialist applications, will disappear in the same way LPG has as an alternative fuel to petrol.

Anyone who tells you watching motor racing is "all about the noise" is probably also the same sort of person who goes there hoping to see a crash. F1 engine technology has to move forward to keep it relevant, otherwise it will end up like the VCR. You cannot continue forever with analogue technology in an increasingly digital world.