Current Carlos Sainz

Carlos Sainz Jr (is he dropping the Jr now?) may be the first rookie to come into F1 already demoralised and thinking his team do not believe in him. Sainz was number 1 in the Red Bull Driver programme and completely aced his season in WSR 3.5 and pretty much cruised his way to the title. Despite all of this it must have been a crushing blow to him when it was announced that Max Verstappen, who had been in the Red Bull Driver Programme for 2 weeks, was announced at Toro Rosso F1. Sainz was not happy and his form did drop off probably out of pure frustration. However Vettel's sudden departure to Ferrari opened up another space in the Toro Rosso team but even then Red Bull waited a good 3 months before announcing Sainz in the seat.

In 2013 Sainz lined up in GP3 and was considered by some as the favourite for the championship. His team had major issues with the tyres early on which left them struggling and coming back from behind. Sainz never got on terms with the front runners that year which would not have been that big a deal had his team mate not been fellow Red Bull driver Danii Kvyat. Kvyat stormed from way back in championship to win the GP3 2013 title which of course led him to be bumped up to Toro Rosso F1 and now of course will be taking on the challenge of the main Red Bull team for 2015. It will hard for Sainz not to think of what might have been as going in to 2013 he was considered in front of Kvyat in the pecking order and had he had better form in 2013 it might be him sitting in that seat now. Sainz issue was that whilst he was quick he appeared to be an accident magnet. He would find himself in the pack and whilst he was exciting to watch with some great overtaking moves he would more often than not end up running into someone.

To Sainz's credit he went away over the winter and fixed all those issues and came back a far more complete driver to take on the WSR 3.5 2014 season. Whilst he had some great tussles with Mehri and Rowland his title was really not in any doubt. He was cool, calm and exceptionally quick which made it all the more of a shock when Red Bull passed him over for Verstappen. He got a reprieve with the drivers market shuffle which I happen to think has meant a great miscarriage of justice was averted as he really has shown his potential this year but you have to ask yourself what his attitude will be coming into a team he has to think don't really want him that much.

I'm hoping that all the politics will mean he will come in with a steely attitude to make Verstappen look like an amateur but I get the feeling he won't help but notice the sympathetic glances from JEV as they pass each other going through the revolving door of Toro Rosso. It appears that however good your results are in that team it all comes down to whether they rate your or not.

Are we looking forward to seeing Sainz or do we think he is a lost cause already?
well he's got the name of a famous dad and apparently has bought some sponsors to STR which helps for a start

Its a reprieve that he has got the drive that he was expected to be promoted to and only overlooked for Verstappen- Jos must have had a good word for his son then

Two hard charging rookies in the STR could be a recipe for disaster and heavy repair bills

Unless something happens within Red Bull's line up ie Ricciardo gets snapped up by Ferrari which is still a possibility for 2016 then both of them have got 2 seasons maybe 3 to prove themselves that they deserve to be promoted and the loser will be out of F1
Everyone knows he was overlooked so the only way to prove Helmut was wrong is to thrash Verstappen which then show up what a poor decision Helmut made
The good results tactic still didn't work for JEV though so I'm not sure even that will help. I'm with teabagyokel - he needs to score good results and be scouting round for a team change whilst he's doing it.
Not sure you can call him overlooked when he got the seat he wanted. Not sure he needs to look for a team change he just needs to beat Max handily and wait for Kvyat to get absolutely throttled by Danny. Beating Max handily is easier said than done though. Unless you're Esteban Ocon.
Ricciardo might get snapped up by Ferrari for 2016 as Kimi will definitely go although Vettel might not like it but Daniel being half Italian might persuade Maranello to have him so there is a potential Red Bull seat up for grabs

Kyvat would have to serious screw up his year at Red Bull to let either Sainz Jr or Verstappen in.

The pattern seems to be that Helmut like guys with 1 lap speed potential over race pace because they believe that you can develop that as you gain more experience

Sainz Jr needs to work on the fact that Verstappen is only 17 and use that to his advantage - there is a lot of controversy about Max being allowed in F1 at his age


Having a famous father will help if he delivers the results otherwise it will be an hindrance. He can use the fact that he could be next Spanish F1 superstar after Alonso ...

Do Mclaren have any Spanish sponsorship coming their way or do they need to keep Santander happy with a Spanish driver in future ?
soccerman17 - JEV beat both Ricciardo and Kvyat and will be watching from home next season so you can see the scepticism on whether there is anything Sainz can do to be moved above Max in the pecking order.

I also disagree with you on Kvyat as I think he might give Danny Boy a few surprises next season. That is all for another thread though (one I'm working on).
JEV's problem was when the carrot was dangled to him he failed to deliver it when he needed it the most and he seems to get the worst of the reliability issues in STR when he is on for a good result

He was touted as the fastest of the Red Bull juniors so that seemed to dispelled when it was F1.

Sainz Jr needs to work a plan B route because Lynn would no doubt be looking at STR thinking he needs to win whatever series next year he enters to get himself promoted
Daniil Kvyat in 2014 scored the same amount of points as Romain Grosjean.

If his Sunday form doesn't drastically improve, he is going to get shown up by Ricciardo.
Back to the original topic of the thread, how do we tell the difference between both Sainz and Verstappen being crap and both Sainz and Verstappen being brilliant?
If they beat the two Red Bull drivers then they are brilliant. If they don't then in the eyes of Red Bull they have one foot in the exit door.
two rookies - I think there is going to be a lot of repair bills

there is no yardstick to go up against so they can only really race each other and whoever is the victor will get promoted whilst the other will disappear although Carlos Jnr might benefit from having a famous name that Bernie will exploit ( if he is still alive) for F1

Ricciardo vs Vergne - Daniel had 8 races head start from doing a stint at HRT
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