Button needs 1 win to secure the 2011 WDC...

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
So it's the Friday before the Japanese GP and Vettel is abducted by aliens (bear with me, it gets worse :D).

Fast forward a few months and Button has won the previous 4 grands prix and it's down to the final race at Brazil.
He needs another win to secure the WDC by a single point.

Hamilton manages to qualify ahead and the pair of them pull away from the rest of the pack, building up a comfortable lead.

Hamilton seems to have the measure of Button and is able to eke out a small advantage each lap, steadily increasing it.

It's clear that it's going to be a 1-2 for McLaren, barring an accident or incident.

So. Do McLaren instruct both drivers to switch positions?
If so, would Hamilton accede?

Before you answer, just remember Germany 2010, a certain red team and the ensuing furore...

More importantly, would it be a worthy WDC title for Button?
Most people seemed to imply that had Massa won in 2008 it wouldn't have been due to the extra points he was gifted by the FIA.
 

Greenlantern101

Super Hero And All Round Good Guy
Contributor
100% certain they would swap and Hamilton would do so willingly. It would give Mclaren both championships and support Jenson his friend and team mate.

I recon your odds at the bookies would be pretty good for this.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Should we move this to Clip the Apex Presents? Dunno if Hamilton would move over, might do but it might be 10 metres from the line just to prove a point (didn't Rubens do that once?).

Your thoughts about Vettel being abducted by aliens, is so that they can borrow his finger for some "probing"? Maybe Sebastian was a customs officer or worked for the German equivalent of the DEA in a previous life...
 

sobriety

Pole Sitter
Yup they would swap and Hamilton would do it. Since he has no mathematical possibility of winning the championship, I have no problem with this happening, it's when a team uses team orders when both drivers are in with a shout of winning that's a bit wrong.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Should we move this to Clip the Apex Presents?
Do you mean Off The Pit Wall?

It's actually a serious point, I just want to see how people would treat the extra points gained by Button considering what was said after Ferrari made Massa move over.
(I only mentioned aliens as I didn't want to imply anything happening to Vettel to put him out for the rest of the season.)

Judging by the responses so far, it would appear to be OK...
 

Vortex

Race Winner
Judging by the responses so far, it would appear to be OK...


Yeah I think that would be totally OK, it would be the sensible and logical thing to do and id expect any team to do that in the same situation, would be silly otherwise, like, lets give the championship to our rival instead.
 

mjo

Procrastinating
Contributor
If Hamilton did move over, then Button would have won, but not deserved it. But the championship isn't about who deserves it, it's about who gets the most points. A few examples of this are: 2007, when Hamilton deserved it, 2008, when Massa deserved it, 1976, when Lauda deserved it, 1989, when Prost (in my opinion) deserved it and 1958 when Stirling Moss should have won he championship. So it wouldn't have been a tainted championship if Button had won, as championships are won by who has the most points, either by luck or skill, not by who deserves it. So if that did happen, then Button's championship won't count for anything less than, say, Alonso's in 05 or Senna's in 88.
 

Josh

Champion Elect
I don't have any problems with team orders (provided one driver has agreed to this and/or is mathematically left with no chance of winning the WDC) so I wouldn't have any problem with that situation, nor do I feel the championship would be tainted.

It is a team sport after all, and securing one or both of the titles is good for the team.
 

riskitall

Points Scorer
i have a problem with it because vettel will win the championship regardless.whoever thinks button has a realistic chance is deluded.hasnt vettel come first or second in every race so far this season.9 wins 5 nds.plus vettels 124 points ahead with only 125 points up for grabs.
webber,alonso,button and lewis are racing for 2nd place,and they all have a realistic chance of getting it.
 

Jen

Here be dragons.
Contributor
i have a problem with it because vettel will win the championship regardless.whoever thinks button has a realistic chance is deluded.hasnt vettel come first or second in every race so far this season.9 wins 5 nds.plus vettels 124 points ahead with only 125 points up for grabs.
webber,alonso,button and lewis are racing for 2nd place,and they all have a realistic chance of getting it.
Somehow think you have missed the point of the thread which is a theoretical scenario - but, hey, we've all done it :)
 

Senna's_right_foot

Pole Sitter
Supporter
As a McLaren fan first and foremost, I don't care if it's one of the aliens driving the car, as long as one of them wins. I like both Hamilton and Button so would have no problem with Hamilton moving over as he has mathimatically no chance. No conspiracy theories, no 'x is better than y, except when....'. I'm happy just as long as it wasn't a Ferrari or Red Bull winning :p
 

Mezzer

A fine chap if ever there was one.
Contributor
I had a smiliar thought, but my thought was around whether or not Button would be considered the real champion if he only won because something such as an accident happened to Vettel. I seem to remember, perhaps wrongly, that Gilles Villeneuve was winning the WCC handily when he was killed and wondered how that coloured whoever did win's championship.
 

Tacitus

Podium Finisher
I suspect we will see a classic susuka, hamilton will be ordered to smash into vettel at the first corner ala prost-senna to ensure jenson has a chance of winning the title. This process will continue at every race to ensure vettel does not get a point.
My theorgy gets more intresting and intricute as webber will attempt to sacrifice himself for the protection of his team-mate, or would he let it happen as he hates vettel.
At least that's what i think will happen at susuka.
 

The Pits

Harumph. Again.
Valued Member
Personally, I believe that Lewis would pull over, and would not require team orders for him to do so.

In terms of the championship, I think it would have a significant footnote, more so than many others due to the current positions, and I get the feeling that Jenson would feel it a hollow victory, as would I.
 

HammydiRestarules

Di Resta fan :).
Contributor
I don't have a real problem with team orders towards the end of the season where one driver is in the hunt for the title and the other one isn't. What i do dislike is team orders been used in the beginning/middle of the season when both drivers have a realistic chance of winning the championship.

But back to your thread Brogan. If your Mclaren you would have to tell Lewis to move over as he really doesn't have the chance of winning the title. Plus i think Lewis would happily move over (even though deep down he wishes he couldn't) if it meant the team got a title.
 

jez101

Bookies drive nice cars because of people like me
Contributor
I think its a difficult parallel you are trying to draw.
:(

Bottom line is that team orders were against the rules when Ferrari used them last year. They aren't now, so I would say your scenario is ok for Hamilton to switch, whereas it wasn't at Hockenheim last year.

its not whether the rules are right or wrong in sport, it doesn't matter. What matters is that they are adhered to by all players and in Germany last year, Ferrari broke the rules.
 
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