Bring back refuelling?
- Thread starter Slyboogy
- Start date
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
No refuelling.
Use of any tyres with no restriction on the number of stops. If you can do it in one do so.
As much KERS as you can get.
No DRS.
Single element wings with a small surface area, no winglets.
Exhausts which never go below half the height of the car.
Use of any tyres with no restriction on the number of stops. If you can do it in one do so.
As much KERS as you can get.
No DRS.
Single element wings with a small surface area, no winglets.
Exhausts which never go below half the height of the car.
Oh, and no restrictions on engine revs with one more engine than currently allowed.
How does a driver overtake himself?
Westy
Pole Sitter
As Bill Boddy said, getting the exhausts completely out of the aero equation is very important.
What we need to improve the overtaking is less emphasis on the importances of aerodynamics. Following a car too closely causes an aero wash and the pursuing car loses downforce.
I'd love to see the loss of wings all together. Cars could get closer and the driver would really have to work.
Having said all this I did vote for the addition of refueling and keep everything else the same. I feel I voted too early before I properly thought about it.
I stand by the reintroduction of refueling though. Other series (V8 Supercars) are able to refuel without the fuel hose being ripped out or cars going up in flames. Surely F1 can figure something out. Or maybe not!
What we need to improve the overtaking is less emphasis on the importances of aerodynamics. Following a car too closely causes an aero wash and the pursuing car loses downforce.
I'd love to see the loss of wings all together. Cars could get closer and the driver would really have to work.
Having said all this I did vote for the addition of refueling and keep everything else the same. I feel I voted too early before I properly thought about it.
I stand by the reintroduction of refueling though. Other series (V8 Supercars) are able to refuel without the fuel hose being ripped out or cars going up in flames. Surely F1 can figure something out. Or maybe not!
They did want to increase the allowance for ground effect, which would help the aero situation. The big problem that they have here is keeping the natural order of the formulae below F1, GP2 is not too far behind F1 at the moment (well, certainly not HRT!) and a few rule tweaks could see the gap closing even more, which is not at all what I want to see.
landogeorgelewis1
Champion Elect
How does a driver overtake himself?
Should have said overtake another driver himself or something like that
.
Incubus
Champion Elect
HammydiRestarules Interesting debate here. Since a driver can unlap himself logic suggests he should also be able to lap himself. It's like...; existentialist, what? 
I voted 'other'
- No refueling, as snowy said it ruined overtaking, why over take when you can pass on strategy.
- Lower the noses, back on the tarmac please. If you can see your car and where you are going it would be easier to pass someone and cause less crashes and fairer closer racing.
- Aero tweaks are essential, you must be able to follow someone without ruining your grip levels : Make the front wing much narrower and shallower to give much less down force and do the same to the rear wing, Loose the floor plank, bring back titanium skid plates and sparks, and yes reintroduce ground effect.
- Then we can loose the DRS and have real overtaking again.
- Bring back wide tyres, proper wide if half of your grip is mechanical rather than aero then you loose less when following someone.
- Keep the 2 tyre compound rule its good to mix things up.
- No refueling, as snowy said it ruined overtaking, why over take when you can pass on strategy.
- Lower the noses, back on the tarmac please. If you can see your car and where you are going it would be easier to pass someone and cause less crashes and fairer closer racing.
- Aero tweaks are essential, you must be able to follow someone without ruining your grip levels : Make the front wing much narrower and shallower to give much less down force and do the same to the rear wing, Loose the floor plank, bring back titanium skid plates and sparks, and yes reintroduce ground effect.
- Then we can loose the DRS and have real overtaking again.
- Bring back wide tyres, proper wide if half of your grip is mechanical rather than aero then you loose less when following someone.
- Keep the 2 tyre compound rule its good to mix things up.
I disagree with the people that say we need to make the cars produce less downforce. F1 really should be the fastest (over a sinlge lap) form of motorsport. There are already many technological avenues that the teams can't go down, due to costs or safety etc. However to take things from the cars that have been allowed for years would be wrong IMO, it would also mean that within a fairly narrow development window there are even less options to explore. I like the fact that F1 cars aren't the same and have different atrributes, both good and bad, it adds to the sport as a whole because it means what worked one GP weekend might not work on another and it just makes F1 less boring.
Jos the Boss
Champion Elect
I voted for refuelling, DRS, KERS and Pirelli tyres, but then realised a tyre war would be a lot more interesting
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
no-FIAt-please
Overbody downforce is not necessarily the be-all and end-all.
Underbody downforce can easily replace overbody downforce, and has much fewer problems for following the car in front! However, it does have problems such as when the skirt fail - leading to aerobatic crashes.... If you could have a completely safe ground-effect car, it could easily be quicker than a overbody downforce car!
Overbody downforce is not necessarily the be-all and end-all.
Underbody downforce can easily replace overbody downforce, and has much fewer problems for following the car in front! However, it does have problems such as when the skirt fail - leading to aerobatic crashes.... If you could have a completely safe ground-effect car, it could easily be quicker than a overbody downforce car!
I'm against bringing back refuelling - I can think of several bad reasons and no good ones - but I don't think the ban explains solely or even mainly the increase in overtaking that we've seen from 2010.
Overtaking now may be considered less 'significant' because of KERS, DRS and Pirelli creating bigger performance disparities. But, without DRS, Pirelli tyres and KERS, would cars actually be able to overtake at all? Under Bridgestone the performance profile from Saturday usually carried through to Sunday; the cars moved away in grid order and unless someone had stalled, overtaking was a redundant concept. I don't think the refuelling ban on its own has solved that problem (if you line cars up fastest to slowest, they won't pass each other) but only in conjunction with these other variables, that mean different cars are fast at different times in the race, or in a particular lap.
Perhaps there's a better way of doing it, but surely it still needs to be done? With the level of investment and technology in the sport now, and greater understanding of, and control over, the variables influencing speed, giving teams a free hand probably means the performance equation will be solved with a high degree of consistency, and unpredictability takes a back seat.
Overtaking now may be considered less 'significant' because of KERS, DRS and Pirelli creating bigger performance disparities. But, without DRS, Pirelli tyres and KERS, would cars actually be able to overtake at all? Under Bridgestone the performance profile from Saturday usually carried through to Sunday; the cars moved away in grid order and unless someone had stalled, overtaking was a redundant concept. I don't think the refuelling ban on its own has solved that problem (if you line cars up fastest to slowest, they won't pass each other) but only in conjunction with these other variables, that mean different cars are fast at different times in the race, or in a particular lap.
Perhaps there's a better way of doing it, but surely it still needs to be done? With the level of investment and technology in the sport now, and greater understanding of, and control over, the variables influencing speed, giving teams a free hand probably means the performance equation will be solved with a high degree of consistency, and unpredictability takes a back seat.
One thing that no-one has suggested yet is circuits. Each year we get another "street" type circuit with enormous run-off areas. It would help if the range of types of circuit were much wider. Then a car which went well on one circuit might be not so good on another.
Removal of a few kerbs might help a bit as well.
Removal of a few kerbs might help a bit as well.
ATL11
Pole Sitter
Bring back big fat rear tyres
Exhausts that don't come in to play for Aero
Turbos, oh hang on.....
Remove identity kit tracks more tracks like Spa, Monza.
Oh & the final one 1,000 Tonnes of TNT to blow up the in-field new track bit of Silverstone, I want the 1980's absolute drag race track back please......
Exhausts that don't come in to play for Aero
Turbos, oh hang on.....
Remove identity kit tracks more tracks like Spa, Monza.
Oh & the final one 1,000 Tonnes of TNT to blow up the in-field new track bit of Silverstone, I want the 1980's absolute drag race track back please......
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