Bring back refuelling?

What should Formula 1 do to make it more exciting?

  • Bring back refuelling with KERS + Pirelli tyres

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Bring back refuelling with KERS, DRS + Pirelli tyres

    Votes: 6 16.2%
  • Stay as it is

    Votes: 9 24.3%
  • Get rid of DRS but keep the ban on refuelling

    Votes: 13 35.1%
  • Shorten the race distance

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Should do something else (please specify)

    Votes: 7 18.9%

  • Total voters
    37

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Should Formula 1 bring back refuelling? With the current rules and gadgets of DRS, KERS and these Pirelli tyres, the races would surely be much more interesting than they are now.

With no-refuelling, once someone's in the lead after the first lap, you know they've won, and the last several races after Valencia (where several safety cars and odd mechancial retirements) have been so boring.

With refuelling we saw different strategies, a mix up in the pits, the driver in the lead wasn't guranteed victory, a different grid order from 50% of the race to the end. Instead of now, where the positions stay the same after lap 10 or so.

The counter-argument to bring back refuelling, would be of "drivers overtaking at the pitstops". But with the current rules, then we wouldn't be getting that. Above all that, we are getting drivers "overtaking at the pitstops" right now as it is. Another factor is, with the current regulations, cars can follow each other much better now than they could back in 2005-2009, therefore making overtaking lesser of a challenge.

I never really liked the ban on refuelling, as I tend to have found the races more boring, the last 20 laps these days just kind of seem pointless. I seem to be less interested in F1 than I've ever been, yes I watch every race, but I'm not into it as I used to be. Of course you aren't going to get most of the races to have battles for the lead, but what we've had for the past 3 years haven't been that exciting at all.

After the first round of pit stops: the relative pace of the teams are pretty obvious to see. Since it's fresh in our minds: we can look to Korea. Alonso never seriously threatened Webber after the first lap of the race. Massa might have had a chance if he was allowed to race in front of Alonso, but he wasn't. It was clear that Red Bull was supreme, Ferrari 2nd, and Lotus arguably third. I say arguably because we didn't get a fair opportunity to see McLaren over a race distance. This was predictable quite early.

The best argument for re-fueling the cars is to see them race 'on edge.'

The start of the race now is always exciting. But watching the cars run 4-5s/lap slower than qualifying doesn't interest me much. We never see the cars approaching the lap times of qualifying (and DRS plays into this). And when the cars finally do burn off their fuel: the engines are turned down or the tyres have degraded. The racing currently doesn't produce those 'on the limit' qualifying laps, which then would lead to more driver errors, mistakes, overtakes, and more exciting.

If I could change anything: it would be to eliminate DRS. I don't think it's necessary if Formula 1 want Pirelli as their tyre supplier and aerodynamic grip is scaled back. The cars are running closer together now than in the Bridgestone era. And I would argue the best passes this year happened outside of the DRS zone. Three that stick out in my mind are Vettel on Rosberg at Melbourne, Raikkonen on Schumacher at SPA and Raikkonen on di Resta at Hungary.

I'm putting this thread up as I'm not the only one feeling this way, I was talking to my friends after football about Formula 1, and someone brought up the points of the current situation on F1 and how we are seeming to lose interest in it, we all agreed seemed to agree on it, I've also put this thread up on two other forums, and they seem to agree that the races aren't what they used to be. Some people even suggested cutting the race distance by 15 laps or so.

So, would you like to see refuelling back? Would you think it would be more exciting with refuelling and with the current rules?

Or would you keep it the way it is, or would you tweak other aspects of the sport that has not been mentioned?
 

snowy

Champion Elect
IMHO refuelling was the major contributing factor to the death of on track overtaking in F1. With a round of pitstops impending there was little or no motivation for a driver to pass another on track, they simply waited for the other guy to pit then pitted one lap later. The - insert expletive here - tyres that Pirelli are supplying insures that a similar effect happens now but in reverse. And DRS insures that what overtakes do occur on track are pathetically easy.

It was 2010 that testified to how effective banning refuelling was as the number of on track overtakes shot through the roof and there were so many awesome on track events. Watching Lewis and Jenson duelling on track was a real pleasure. Hard tyres, no refuelling and no DRS equals awesome F1, period.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
It was 2010 that testified to how effective banning refuelling was as the number of on track overtakes shot through the roof and there were so many awesome on track events. Watching Lewis and Jenson duelling on track was a real pleasure. Hard tyres, no refuelling and no DRS equals awesome F1, period.

That is only one awesome track event I can remember from 2010, that is if you exclude the wet races, the rest of the races where just like 2009.

The start of 2011 and 2012, where all about Pirelli tyres degrading quickly and having a small operating window, once the teams got passed that, it's became what it is now.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Recent F1 Seasons
Season GP Overtakes per GP GP (Dry) Overtakes (Dry) Overtakes per GP (Dry)
2012 16 850 53.13 15 774 51.60
2011 19 1,152 60.63 16 945 59.06
2010 19 547 28.79 15 320 21.33
2009 17 244 14.35 15 156 10.40
2008 18 260 14.44 13 137 10.54

Notice how in 2010 the number of overtakes doubles, it is almost double that of any season since 1994 and the introduction of refuelling.
 

Wombcat

Podium Finisher
Refueling is a bad idea. Most importantly because it's dangerous to drivers and pitcrew. There have been been enough accidents to prove that.
And as snowy said, it was the death of overtaking on track.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
But the overtakes these days are just one car breezing past another because one's tyres have gone off, or because of DRS, also add in the fact of the new teams aswell.

My point is, bring back refuelling with the current regs, not the regs they were using before, and the racing will be better. Cars can follow each other closely now, we'll also see different strategies, rather than the stale standard 2 stop race for the top 12 that we see now. The race is dead after the first stint, it wasn't the case before.

Refueling is a bad idea. Most importantly because it's dangerous to drivers and pitcrew. There have been been enough accidents to prove that.

We are seeing wheels coming off of cars with ease doing damage to mechanics, and we've seen cars collide with one another with big impact, with no refuelling in the pits. I don't remember many injuries with refuelling, apart from the big fire in 1994 with Jos Verstappen.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
CTA.png

Every year where there was refuelling is underneath that blue line. Every year where refuelling was banned/not common is above it.
 

Wombcat

Podium Finisher
We are seeing wheels coming off of cars with ease doing damage to mechanics, and we've seen cars collide with one another with big impact, with no refuelling in the pits. I don't remember many injuries with refuelling, apart from the big fire in 1994 with Jos Verstappen.
There have been a few hoses being dragged behind cars, that's not really safe imo.
 

F1 Shift.net

Points Scorer
I am not in favor in refuelling. Either is this guy:
bottleblonde_verstappen-benetton_fire_94.gif


I think it is an added strategy factor, but not an important one. I think the racing is very exciting now and to be honest, I don't even notice the race times being slower than qualy times (visually). Keep it the way it is, but get rid of DRS and it'd be perfect.
 

HammydiRestarules

Di Resta fan :).
Contributor
Went for the get rid of DRS but keep the ban on refuelling.

DRS has made the racing worse than it was. I'd soon rather see a driver earn a race by trying to overtake himself than use the gadgets at his disposal.
 

The Pits

Harumph. Again.
Valued Member
I quite enjoyed the refuelling, it was just different, trying to work out how fa ahead Michael Schumacher would be after the first pit stops ;)

Seriously though, I am not sure about DRS, I think that it is not necessary. I just want to watch a GP where the prospect of the order changing is more likely than the alternative. I am probably fairly well outnumbered, but my main interest is in watching how teams and drivers adapt to changes to regulations, rather than any specific set of regulations.

The safety aspect is important, but I am sure that could be worked around, for example, something which prevents the driver engaging first gear while the hose is attached.

So personally, I am not really to worried about the regulations per se, but like to see the adaptations.
 

mjo

Procrastinating
Contributor
I put stay as it is, but they need to alter the DRS zones and Pitelli need to be more aggressive with their tyres - fast tyres, high wear; and slower tyres, low wear - like it is now but more clearly defined. However i'm sure some of the pathetic excuses that we call F1 circuits contribute to this duller racing. Yes, I'm looking at the Hungaroring, Singapore and Korea. No doubt Abu Dhabi will be dull also.
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
snowy Part of the reason why 2010 had more overtakes than previous years was due to the introduction of the new teams.

Personally I'd just get rid of DRS and keep the ban on refuelling, KERS and the Pirelli tyres.
 
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