2021 Silly Season

[Il_leone]

Wow Ferrari don't usually make a rush statement like this I guess they and Le Clerc's people really want to make it known

So that is pretty much Vettel out / Verstappen a no go then . This is where Mercedes got it wrong with Ocon, they should have announced him into their team.

There is still a chance they want Hamilton in the short term for maybe 1-2 seasons at least

 

[Il_leone]

Well, that is pretty significant. There is no way that Leclerc and his management would agree to a five year contract without some clarity as to fair treatment. I suspect:

1. Vettel has to match or outperform Leclerc the first half of next season, or it is his last season at Ferrari.
2. Hamilton stays at Mercedes with Bottas.
3. Verstappen stays at Red Bull with #2 teammate.
4. If Vettel leaves Ferrari, the new Ferrari teammate will be a clear #2
5. Vettel may not have a major team to go to. Mclaren or retirement may be the only options.

Should we start a 2022 Silly Season thread now?

Vettel is pretty much out of Ferrari - it is only the manner of his exit which will define his legacy post Red Bull

 

[Ruslan]

Wow Ferrari don't usually make a rush statement like this I guess they and Le Clerc's people really want to make it known

That is pretty unusual. I wonder what drove it. Have they decided that Leclerc is their #1 driver going forward?

So that is pretty much Vettel out / Verstappen a no go then . This is where Mercedes got it wrong with Ocon, they should have announced him into their team.

Yep, yep and yep.

There is still a chance they want Hamilton in the short term for maybe 1-2 seasons at least

Might be. In the end I think he is staying with Mercedes. What top driver is going to want to go to Ferrarai now that they have sprinkled holy water on Leclerc?

Anyhow, Merry Christmas.

 

[F1Brits_90]

Max Verstappen gets new three-year Red Bull Formula 1 contract

Max Verstappen has extended his Formula 1 deal with Red Bull until the end of the 2023 season

www.autosport.com

 

[Ruslan]

Max Verstappen gets new three-year Red Bull Formula 1 contract

Max Verstappen has extended his Formula 1 deal with Red Bull until the end of the 2023 season

www.autosport.com

Well everything is falling into place as I expected. Suspect Hamilton will stay at Mercedes, making Vettel the only top driver without a secure drive.

 

[Il_leone]

Well everything is falling into place as I expected. Suspect Hamilton will stay at Mercedes, making Vettel the only top driver without a secure drive.

We will get to see Verstappen vs LeClerc for years to come then.. its good for F1 that Honda are now fully committed for another 3 years

Hamilton - there is still a chance he wants the Ferrari drive but that depends on how competitive Mercedes and Ferrari are over the season. I think after the summer break look out for Monza if he wants to announce himself as a Ferrari driver

 

[Bill Boddy]

Ferrari have their replacement for Vettel ; all the rest can forget it.

Charles Leclerc's brother Arthur Leclerc signs for Ferrari Driver Academy | Formula 1®

Ferrari have picked up another Leclerc as Arthur – Charles Leclerc’s younger brother – has been signed by the Ferrari Driver Academy.

www.formula1.com

 

[Il_leone]

Ferrari have their replacement for Vettel ; all the rest can forget it.

Charles Leclerc's brother Arthur Leclerc signs for Ferrari Driver Academy | Formula 1®

Ferrari have picked up another Leclerc as Arthur – Charles Leclerc’s younger brother – has been signed by the Ferrari Driver Academy.

www.formula1.com

Hmmm nepotism just like MotoGP when Honda sign Marc Marquez's brother

Well don't be surprised if Leclerc junior appears in an Alfa or Haas before Schumacher then

 

[Ruslan]

Well Helmut Mario’s recent comments sort of rules out Vettel at Red Bull. He needs to put on the drives of his life in the first half of next year, otherwise.....

 

[F1Brits_90]

well we all know how good vettel is, in 2010 - 2013 he was the best driver easily & if he can get back to that level then Leclerc will have a big challenge. but since 2017 when there is a critical moment in a race or a championship. he has made a mistake or a wrong decision. that has cost Ferrari a lot 2017 & 2018 should've gone to the final race but for that. in 2018 vettel should've been world champion

but agreed pressure is on he can been out driven like 2019 by Leclerc again for his future, but as I said above that puts the pressure on & that rarely ends well

 

[F1Brits_90]

I am looking forward to this season because I think we are in for a cracking title battle because if Ferrari can stop cocking up every weekend like when they qualified 1-2 in 3 consective GP's only managed a best of 3rd & be more at the level of Mercedes pitwall. then with an improved Hamilton because despite what the stats say, it was an average yr but then might been because he was relaxed due to having it won in june. & Verstappen has Alonso qualities that if you give a car a sniff of a title. he will hustle it into contention.

because if you take the championship standings after Mercedes won it after the French gp, it looks very good & only takes an improvement from red bull, then Ferrari stop underachieving. it got a 3 way battle all over it

Hamilton - 226
Verstappen - 178
Leclerc - 177
Bottas - 175
Vettel - 129

but then like every yr I will be disappointed by the end of Australian gp

 

[Grizzly]

in 2010 - 2013 he was the best driver easily

Do you mean best driver in the Red Bull camp?

 

[Ruslan]

well we all know how good vettel is, in 2010 - 2013 he was the best driver easily & if he can get back to that level then Leclerc will have a big challenge. but since 2017 when there is a critical moment in a race or a championship. he has made a mistake or a wrong decision.....

Well, during 2010-13 period I always contended that we really did not know how good Vettel was because he never had a teammate that was a real top-notch challenge. Hamilton was teamed up with world champions Alonso and Button and Vettel was teamed with Mark Webber (and was outperformed by Luizzi during the brief time they were teammates). So....while there was no doubt that Vettel was good, he was never seriously challenged on the same team. Therefore we didn't know how good (I could make the same argument about Verstappen).

Also, Vettel was making 2-3 or more mistakes a season, sometimes crashing into teammates, back markers, off track, etc. Because he was winning, it was overlooked, but I think if you make a list of mistakes he made each season from 2010-2013 you will find the count is similar to any list of mistakes he makes in the more recent seasons. Now, they just matter a lot more.

So.....I do not believe Vettel was "...the best driver easily...": in 2010-2103. It is clear now that Hamilton and Alonso were better, and of course, we now have seen more than one failed season from Vettel (2014 and 2019). I think this is because this has always been the driver he has been, but it was masked by how good the Red Bull was.

 

[Il_leone]

Its easy to look good when you lead with a clear track which is how Vettel usually dominated from 2010-2013. Fortunately for him Webber's challenge never materialised after Malaysia

 

[F1Brits_90]

Do you mean best driver in the Red Bull camp?

Well, during 2010-13 period I always contended that we really did not know how good Vettel was because he never had a teammate that was a real top-notch challenge. Hamilton was teamed up with world champions Alonso and Button and Vettel was teamed with Mark Webber (and was outperformed by Luizzi during the brief time they were teammates). So....while there was no doubt that Vettel was good, he was never seriously challenged on the same team. Therefore we didn't know how good (I could make the same argument about Verstappen).

Also, Vettel was making 2-3 or more mistakes a season, sometimes crashing into teammates, back markers, off track, etc. Because he was winning, it was overlooked, but I think if you make a list of mistakes he made each season from 2010-2013 you will find the count is similar to any list of mistakes he makes in the more recent seasons. Now, they just matter a lot more.

So.....I do not believe Vettel was "...the best driver easily...": in 2010-2103. It is clear now that Hamilton and Alonso were better, and of course, we now have seen more than one failed season from Vettel (2014 and 2019). I think this is because this has always been the driver he has been, but it was masked by how good the Red Bull was.

for whatever it was that era of car 2010 - 2013 with the blown diffuser, the car suited him he was the best driver on the grid. with all the records from that time. & im sure that confidence plays apart in that. he could find the extra tenths just from the success feeling like everything he touches turns to gold, he could go try going flat out in turn 8 Istanbul or 130R, unlike now when he has doubts & low on confidence. he would probally play it safe

as proved by Webber 2011, 2012, 2013, Rosberg in 2015, Bottas 2017 & 2018. who were all very good drivers just because you have the machinery that has won world titles, doesn't mean that the teammate automatically will. in all 6 instances the teammate finished quite far behind when it was won they were all 70pts behind, then theres every Red Bull 2nd driver since Vettel left. & where Riccardio & Verstappen can take poles & wins. but the 2nd driver has only taken 1 podium kyvat in shanghai?? as i dont think gasly kyvat or Albon has taken another

 

[Ruslan]

for whatever it was that era of car 2010 - 2013 with the blown diffuser, the car suited him he was the best driver on the grid.....

But we actually don’t KNOW that. We do not have a basis for making that decision. On the other hand, we know how Hamilton and Alonso compare to each other in the same car, we know how Hamilton and Button compare to each other in the same car, we know how Rosberg and Schumacher compare to each other In the same car, and we know how Rosberg and Hamilton compare to each other in the same car. We do not know how Vettel compares to Hamilton or Alonso. So we don’t have a basis for making the claim that he was the best driver.

 

[Grizzly]

Not sure I can add much to what Ruslan says, but I'll throw my two pennies worth in nontheless...

the car suited him

Certainly.

he was the best driver on the grid

Impossible to say.

Now you can stop reading there, or read my waffle below

The combination of chassis, engine and driver were certainly the best package, of that there is little doubt. I don't have an opinion on who was 'the best' in 2010, or any of Vettel's championship years for that matter. At the time he was indeed in many/most peoples top 3, but few (and I mean of those travelling with the circus, career pundits etc) would go so far as place him above the other two and more recently, 'those in the know' you'll find have been re-visiting those years of domination with new questions emerging. For what it's worth, I do not particularly rate Webber as an F1 driver. This is no criticism of Webber per se, he's a bludee gud bloke ya-know?, but it is a reflection of my view of using him as any kind of yardstick for team mate comparison.

Finally, when i cast my mind back to that time, I'm reminded of Kubica at the top of his game in a relative shit-box, Rosberg utterly dominating the Michael, Alonso challenging Vettel almost throughout when the car had no right to do so and Button and Hamilton pushing each other (with a large part of either drivers failure to truly challenge for the title probably being because of McLarens lovely, but slightly flawed equal treatment policy, even during those inter-team battle years). You could make a pretty good case for any of the above if you wanted to isolate one as the best, but it is impossible to truly isolate driver performance in a team sport. Yes you can pick out faults for all above, but the Vettel of the past two seasons is forcing difficult questions to be raised, even amongst his biggest fans.

Back to 2021, i think we'll have to wait and see. If he is consistently behind Leclerc by mid-season, i could well imagine a vacant seat at Ferrari.

 

[Titch]

I think Vettel will be gone by 2021.

However I’m not very good at predictions.

 

[F1Brits_90]

I think Vettel will be gone by 2021.

However I’m not very good at predictions.

if he has a run of form like the end of the season up to monaco. then I find find it highly possible he could be gone sadly. because the great vettel is huge asset to grid.

for the 1st time in his career he is at bigger odds to be world champion than his teammate

 

[F1Brits_90]

Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes the 'obvious pairing going forward', says Toto Wolff - BBC Sport

Mercedes Formula 1 boss Toto Wolff says that Lewis Hamilton staying with the team beyond the end of this season is "the obvious pairing".

www.bbc.co.uk

"We would like to have the fastest man in the car and I know Lewis wants to be in the fastest car, so there is an obvious mutual outcome."

i disagree with toto here because there is a big difference between fastest car & the best team. if toto had said "because i know Lewis wants to be in the best team" i wouldve no issue but as the season progressed hungary onwards, it was clear that the fastest car was ferrari but the best team was mercedes.

as i said post Japanese gp which summed up last 3 years , mercedes maximise what they have, Ferrari make too many errors could've won 9 grand prix up to that point & a 180 point gap should be 50 - 70. you would rarely if ever see Mercedes lock out the front row not have reliability issues & Ferrari finish 1st & 3rd very nearly 1-2, simply wouldn't happen