Grand Prix 2019 Russian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Onwards to Sochi in one of those frustrating season where we do have three teams in the mix for wins but somehow we have absolutely no title fight kicking off whatsoever. Hamilton has not even had to do his usual post summer blitz to get his massive title lead but has merely gone into Alain Prost mode where he just picks up podiums and consistant results whilst the others go up and down. His nearest rival is his own team mate and he is being anchored down by his own team from challenging Lewis because they are scared of their drivers getting in each others way and giving wins away to Red Bull and Ferrari. So Lewis is laughing and two and half race wins in front in the championship.

So no title fight but we are getting good racing for once. If Ferrari had not messed up so badly with set up and strategy at the begining of the season then it's clear they would have been in contention with Merc, certainly with LeClerc anyways. After Charlie boy was politically swindled out of his third win in a row last time out I'm fully expecting him to drive angry in Russia, which was something he did often in his GP3 and F3 days. It is impressively fast but often ends with a smash. His illustrious team mate has been a shadow of his former self all year but suddenly turned up when he hasn't all year at Singapore. If we ignore the strategy swindle you have to say Vettel had an impressive weekend and drove beautifully. The worrying thing for him was though that even on form he only beat his young team mate via strategy rather than pace. It's possible the win might inspire a revival though. I genuinely hope so as would love to see an on form Vettel mixing it with Hamilton, LeClerc and Verstappen.

Speaking of Max I'm giving his own paragraph to officially doth my cap to him. All year he has been consistently fast, he's had race craft, he's had guile and he has basically looked like the complete racing driver. This is something i've never seen before and often wondered if I would see. Don't get me wrong I always knew he was a fantastic driver on his day but now I see he can do it over a season. Respects to you sir.

Away from the main contenders I'm paying close attention to some of the midfield drivers at the moment as there is a change in the wind. The much maligned Antonio Giovanazzi has found a lot of pace since the summer break. Whilst he has a tendency to get into an accident and not get the results from it the old adage is that it's better to have a fast driver that crashes than a slow driver who plays it safe. Maybe it's time we reassessed him. Similarly we might need to have a look at Piere Gasly too. Before the season started the media decided the story was that Gasly was under pressure and might be dropped. Low and behold it happened! However he is now at Torro Rosso and has had some quality drives (Singapore was probably his best drive in F1) whilst his replacement at Red Bull Albon has not really got much better result than Piere did. Maybe Gasly is going to show he is a capable driver just that most people going head to head with Max Verstappen are going to look ordinary.

So that's the runners and riders but what of Sochi? Well unfortunately it's a pretty dull track with one really good corner. I think last year it may have had no overtakes at all. However it's very harsh to blame the circuit because some of the best GP2 and GP3 races I have ever seen have been held he where the cars were three wide going through turn 3 on nearly every lap. So will the racing improve with the front teams now closer? Maybe. Unfortunately we won't have the Singapore effect where the middle teams are brought close enough to the action to influence it but we may get a few fiesty moves.

Who is going to win? Well I'll let you guys debate that but how about this? Have the rubles been put down by the great Bear hunter? Will we suddenly see the track clear and a certain Dani Kvyat come to the front to complete one of greatest F1 comebacks of all time? I'd love to see that race so let's hope so!
 
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2 when the hybrid thing goes they are supposed to stop asap in order to prevent the engine from breaking down, it's a street circuit I wonder where Vettel should have stopped.
Should have got out and pushed it to the garage... duh :twisted:

I don't get the argument either. It has been common practice to stop immediately as you say since the hybrid era.
 
He needs to get his act together and start beating Leclerc again to prove he's worthy of being the number 1.

he beat Leclerc in Singapore and that was a bit of an issue, today he beat him fair and square until the pit wall kept him out on purpose longer than necessary and people got offended by the fact that he was considerably faster than his team mate, I wonder what the guy can do to address this situation, it seems that whatever he does he's wrong
 
I must confess that I think that I have never seen so much aggro directed at a driver who's only sin was to go faster than his team mate, not even good old Barrichello got so much trashing on the few occasions when he found himself ahead of Schumacher
The common theme with Barrichello was that he was a clear number 2, disregarding the fact that he was naturally much slower than M. Schumacher. Everyone likes to see an underdog like Barrichello win.

it seems that whatever he does he's wrong
It does seem like it here.
 
How did Leclerc help Vettel pass Hamilton at the start?

Gave Vettel a slipstream apparently.

I didn't see it.

The fact of the matter is that Charles has said there was a pre race agreement, Vettel referred to a pre Race discussion. Ferrari have talked about it and every single pundit, reporter and commentator all agree there was one.

No amount of revision will change that fact.
 
Gave Vettel a slipstream apparently.

I didn't see it.

it's not as if he had any choice, he was ahead of Vettel, Vettel was faster off the line and took the slipstream, that's how racing works, if Vettel isn't allowed to take the slipstream of his team mate when he's behind why is he even allowed to start the race?

Seriously what Leclerc did was different, he didn't close to door on his team mate which sound like the kind of behaviour that every team manager asks of his drivers
 
Gave Vettel a slipstream apparently.

I didn't see it.

The fact of the matter is that Charles has said there was a pre race agreement, Vettel referred to a pre Race discussion. Ferrari have talked about it and every single pundit, reporter and commentator all agree there was one.

No amount of revision will change that fact.
There was no way he could have let Leclerc pass though without being backed up into Hamilton. I don't get why no one seems to understand that here. Leclerc was to far away for Vettel to let him pass and before his stop he showed no sign of having enough pace to lead the race. Vettel's action were totally acceptable, so were Ferrari's by leaving him out on his old tyres to give Leclerc the undercut.
 
Vettel is clearly looking out for himself and history shows he will defy orders where a win is at stake but I despise the driver that plays the number two role so good on him. I was gutted he retired, was really looking forward to a three way battle.
 
I must confess that I think that I have never seen so much aggro directed at a driver who's only sin was to go faster than his team mate, not even good old Barrichello got so much trashing on the few occasions when he found himself ahead of Schumacher
Race highlights.

Replay of Start clearly shows that Vettel was on his own, and despite being faster, he is being chastised for it. I heard him talking, but there was no mandated or definitely prearranged swap in positions. Leclerc is obviously interpreting pre-race discussions differently than Vettel has understood.

Seb could be in deep water. Big cheese from Ferrari went on the radio ordering him to let Leclerc go, despite that one was out of DRS range far back.
 
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he beat Leclerc in Singapore and that was a bit of an issue, today he beat him fair and square until the pit wall kept him out on purpose longer than necessary and people got offended by the fact that he was considerably faster than his team mate, I wonder what the guy can do to address this situation, it seems that whatever he does he's wrong

Vettel should have never entered into an agreement then gone back on it.

If there had been no agreement in place we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Why can't you see, that aspect was wrong. His team, the people who pay his wages, told him to let Charles by. He ignored that.

If you work, or any of Seb's fans work, when you go into work tomorrow and your boss asks you do something just ignore it and do your own thing. See how far that gets you.

I would have absolutely no problem with Seb getting off the line, taking the lead and disappearing down the road. He didn't back himself to do that.

Every driver is fallible but their devoted fans obviously fail to see this. Hamilton has had similar team mate issues, especially when Button challenged him at McLaren.

My problem isn't so much about what Vettel did its how many people are prepared to justify or worse still ignore it.
 
It was quite definite that's why they switched positions during the pit stop phase. It would have been absolutely ludicrous to swap before the pit stop phase because Leclerc would have only backed Vettel into Hamilton. He couldn't get within DRS range of Vettel.
Not arguing either way. My comments were based on listening to interview with Vettel. There is a saying (did I hear somebody else use this today?): no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.
 
Why can't you see, that aspect was wrong. His team, the people who pay his wages, told him to let Charles by. He ignored that.
You keep ignoring that Leclerc was not close enough - 1.5 sec which increased to 4 sec - and later they told Vettel/Leclerc they switched to plan c.

If you work, or any of Seb's fans work, when you go into work tomorrow and your boss asks you do something just ignore it and do your own thing. See how far that gets you.
F1 doesn't compare to 'our' world. And if you've ever been racing professionally at any level then you would know that it doesn't apply to motor sport in general.

My problem isn't so much about what Vettel did its how many people are prepared to justify or worse still ignore it.
Because it's the natural instinct of any top level racing driver. Vettel clearly thought he was there on merit because Leclerc couldn't drive up to him and pass him.
 
multi 165 seb, multi 165 ;)
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re your questions:
1 how could Leclerc lead the race if he was significantly slower that Vettel? that's what I don't understand, Lerclerc didn't had a chance, he quite simply didn't have Hamilton's pace

Too many subjects here.....so let me answer them one at a time.

It is my impression that Leclerc had extra speed and was just bidding his time following Vettel waiting for the exchange. Hard to say.

Part of this impression was how the rest of the weekend had gone so far:
Practice 2: Leclerc over Vettel by 0.7 seconds.
Practice 3: Leclerc over Vettel by 0.3 seconds.
Q1: Leclerc over Vettel by 0.4 seconds.
Q2: Leclerc over Vettel by 0.1 seconds
Q3: Leclerc over Vettel by 0.4 seconds.

Now, it is possible that come race day at race pace that everything was different, but often it is not. This looked to be one of those weekends where Leclerc was dialed in and Vettel was not.

If Leclerc was faster than Vettel, then given clean air from lap 7 and on, I think he would have been able to stretch out his lead, which would have given him the margin he needed. I gather that was the plan and the "thinking," but of course, it was never tested.
 
Mattia Binotto said:
How can you be first and second, protecting first but also gain a position? We agreed that the best way was not to give a slipstream to Hamilton, first, and therefore Charles would give the slipstream to Seb. But giving the slipstream and not defending would give the advantage to Seb, which later on (we) would give back by swapping the cars. So that was the deal.

Leclerc said:
The agreement was very simple, I had to give the slipstream to Seb at the beginning, let him past at the second corner for us to be first and second and then to swap back.

Vettel said:
I don't know exactly what happened. We had an agreement. I spoke with Charles before the race and I think it was quite clear but maybe I missed something. We will speak later.

What was the agreement, he was asked?

Vettel said:
I don't want to share. I don't want to put the team in a bad position afterwards. I know it's not fair because I think people deserve to know. We were talking about a strategy to find a way past Lewis. I had a very good start and there were a couple of options. I prefer not to (say).
 
thought it was fascinating quite entertaining for Russia. who saw that thriller in sochi(lla) coming not me. Right here we go. on the 1 hand nobody bar people in that briefing room knows what was said. so we cant say well this was said & you shouldve done this. as much as vettel showing what weve all known for years because he has zero respect for his bosses because he does what he wants & will defy his bosses orders every time. like today like multi 21. but i dont blame either driver & im sort of on vettel side in this because this is elite sport, a race. not under 10 sports day. because he beat him into T1 he deserved that lead & drove the best ive seen since pre summer break 2018 in that 1st stint, ridiculous would they swap in spa if he overtaken on kemmel straight on 1st lap because of the tow.

instead have a massive bone to pick with ferrari i think what they have mainly this week than last week. could construed as race fixing. they have got to stop meddling in the race & overcomplicating things. let people :censored: race. we would've been in stupid situation where leclerc deserved to win Singapore & lost. then 7 days later vettel would've deserved to win Russia & potentially lost. all team is doing is angering their 2 drivers. Ferrari have never & will never learn their lesson from 1982, may 2002, sept 2002 & 2010 its team orders we are supposed to have the battle on the track not the briefing room

mercedes got fortunate because it would've been spa & monza where they wouldve closed in final laps on softs if no safety car. but every team gets luck. albon had a cracking race pit lane to 5th, sainz was fantastic & couldnt have done any better. what was giovinatzzi thinking he really had to yeild out of that your 3rd car going into a grosjean riccardio wedge. that was only going to end 1 way. finally on the championship if we still think that its title battle which is in reality is in all but name. for bottas to win he has to win the remaining 5 & hope lewis comes 5th or lower. also if leclerc doesnt outscore Lewis by 7pts, then they are mathematically out & both titles are heading back to brackley. but its pretty straight forward for lewis to win his 6th world title in mexico. all he has to do is finish in the top 10 & ahead of his teammate & title is sown up in mexico (for the 3rd yr in a row??)
 
Vettel should have never entered into an agreement then gone back on it.

If there had been no agreement in place we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Why can't you see, that aspect was wrong. His team, the people who pay his wages, told him to let Charles by. He ignored that.

If you work, or any of Seb's fans work, when you go into work tomorrow and your boss asks you do something just ignore it and do your own thing. See how far that gets you.

I would have absolutely no problem with Seb getting off the line, taking the lead and disappearing down the road. He didn't back himself to do that.

Every driver is fallible but their devoted fans obviously fail to see this. Hamilton has had similar team mate issues, especially when Button challenged him at McLaren.

My problem isn't so much about what Vettel did its how many people are prepared to justify or worse still ignore it.

Leclerc and Vettel had an agreement also at Monza but I didn't see anyone particularly worried for the ehics of the sport when one broke it. that's the nature of F1, the drivers are there for themselves

I also think that their agreement was on not giving a tow to Hamilton, the problem with yesterday's race was that since Vettel jumped Hamilton off the line there was no way for Leclerc to give a tow to Hamilton, Vettel was between the two.

Leclerc behaved professionally at the start ie. he didn't close the door to his team mate, that was good.

Expecting that Vettel was going to let him through despite the fact that he was slower (and Leclerc wasn't slower because he was waiting for Vettel to return the favour, he didn't have Vettel's pace, Leclerc pushed as hard as he could and in fact when he pitted his rear tyres were completely shot) is naive, especially since it would be interesting to know if the "agreement" containted any wording to the effect of "if the conditions allow it", which from what I have seen in the papers today seem to be the case. Leclerc didn't manage to build a gap to Hamilton and had Vettel lifted to let Leclerc through he would have likely lost 2nd to Hamilton (who IMHO in race trim was the fastest of them all yesterday).

I also think that you don't understand who drivers work: no self respecting driver would have given up the lead to his team mate after his team mate had taken advantage of him and broke their agreement (I'm referring to Monza). Now they are even.

BUT that is not all: both Vettel and Leclerc work for Ferrari, the say goes that Ferrari is bigger than his drivers, yesterday Ferrari had one and only chance of winning: doing what they did at Spa. All they could do to try and win the race was letting both drivers out a bit longer hoping that Leclerc could slow down Hamilton. they did that at Spa and won the race. Yesterday the trew the race away.

Ferrari's mistake in handling their drivers IMHO is a much bigger problem than what happened between their drivers
 
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