Grand Prix 2019 Russian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Onwards to Sochi in one of those frustrating season where we do have three teams in the mix for wins but somehow we have absolutely no title fight kicking off whatsoever. Hamilton has not even had to do his usual post summer blitz to get his massive title lead but has merely gone into Alain Prost mode where he just picks up podiums and consistant results whilst the others go up and down. His nearest rival is his own team mate and he is being anchored down by his own team from challenging Lewis because they are scared of their drivers getting in each others way and giving wins away to Red Bull and Ferrari. So Lewis is laughing and two and half race wins in front in the championship.

So no title fight but we are getting good racing for once. If Ferrari had not messed up so badly with set up and strategy at the begining of the season then it's clear they would have been in contention with Merc, certainly with LeClerc anyways. After Charlie boy was politically swindled out of his third win in a row last time out I'm fully expecting him to drive angry in Russia, which was something he did often in his GP3 and F3 days. It is impressively fast but often ends with a smash. His illustrious team mate has been a shadow of his former self all year but suddenly turned up when he hasn't all year at Singapore. If we ignore the strategy swindle you have to say Vettel had an impressive weekend and drove beautifully. The worrying thing for him was though that even on form he only beat his young team mate via strategy rather than pace. It's possible the win might inspire a revival though. I genuinely hope so as would love to see an on form Vettel mixing it with Hamilton, LeClerc and Verstappen.

Speaking of Max I'm giving his own paragraph to officially doth my cap to him. All year he has been consistently fast, he's had race craft, he's had guile and he has basically looked like the complete racing driver. This is something i've never seen before and often wondered if I would see. Don't get me wrong I always knew he was a fantastic driver on his day but now I see he can do it over a season. Respects to you sir.

Away from the main contenders I'm paying close attention to some of the midfield drivers at the moment as there is a change in the wind. The much maligned Antonio Giovanazzi has found a lot of pace since the summer break. Whilst he has a tendency to get into an accident and not get the results from it the old adage is that it's better to have a fast driver that crashes than a slow driver who plays it safe. Maybe it's time we reassessed him. Similarly we might need to have a look at Piere Gasly too. Before the season started the media decided the story was that Gasly was under pressure and might be dropped. Low and behold it happened! However he is now at Torro Rosso and has had some quality drives (Singapore was probably his best drive in F1) whilst his replacement at Red Bull Albon has not really got much better result than Piere did. Maybe Gasly is going to show he is a capable driver just that most people going head to head with Max Verstappen are going to look ordinary.

So that's the runners and riders but what of Sochi? Well unfortunately it's a pretty dull track with one really good corner. I think last year it may have had no overtakes at all. However it's very harsh to blame the circuit because some of the best GP2 and GP3 races I have ever seen have been held he where the cars were three wide going through turn 3 on nearly every lap. So will the racing improve with the front teams now closer? Maybe. Unfortunately we won't have the Singapore effect where the middle teams are brought close enough to the action to influence it but we may get a few fiesty moves.

Who is going to win? Well I'll let you guys debate that but how about this? Have the rubles been put down by the great Bear hunter? Will we suddenly see the track clear and a certain Dani Kvyat come to the front to complete one of greatest F1 comebacks of all time? I'd love to see that race so let's hope so!
 
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Izumi Bernoulli

i dont buy Brazil because same as Russia vettel got a poor start its Webber supposed to stay behind. its elite sport you crack on & turn 3 his issue with bruno senna not turn 1 & 2 wrongs dont make a right. i had a issue with my 2 nieces 1 punched so other gave a kicking. you dont say well that fine because she did that & also when your team principal gives a instruction on behalf of the team. you follow it.

this is probally the fault of horner & binotto otherwise the whole managerial authority is undermined. then if they plow on you punish them. the only person ive seen that successful done this is Ross Brawn 2013 Malaysia mightve been same race. when rosberg moaning let me past im so much faster he moans to engineers, still argues his point. then ross brawn comes on radio & lays the law down. as leader your supposed to be disliked
 
Izumi Bernoulli

i dont buy Brazil because same as Russia vettel got a poor start its Webber supposed to stay behind. its elite sport you crack on & turn 3 his issue with bruno senna not turn 1 & 2 wrongs dont make a right. i had a issue with my 2 nieces 1 punched so other gave a kicking. you dont say well that fine because she did that & also when your team principal gives a instruction on behalf of the team. you follow it.
Publius has said it, I've said it, you don't follow instructions. They're out there for themselves in the first place. Bottas has his seat lose because he's contractually obliged to be Hamilton's wingman whether Mercedes/Hamilton want to admit it or not plus he's not good enough anyways. He's a mid-tier and sometimes only a lower mid-tier driver.

I think we have finally entered a parallel universe where contributors on here are seriously suggesting that Ferrari blew up part of the engine of one of their drivers "to teach him a lesson". I give up, that is a truly pathetic suggestion.
I don't believe Ferrari did. I think Vettel actually manipulated his own race because he disliked the strategy and that he had to let Leclerc go. So he punished by screwing around with the software and then parked it on the side of the track, aware that the VSC would come out and thereby handing the win to Mercedes.
 
I don't believe Ferrari did. I think Vettel actually manipulated his own race because he disliked the strategy and that he had to let Leclerc go. So he punished by screwing around with the software and then parked it on the side of the track, aware that the VSC would come out and thereby handing the win to Mercedes.
🤣
 
Bernoulli I seriously hope that your last comment is meant to be in jest otherwise I give up as that is just as ludicrous as suggesting the team stopped his engine.
 
Izumi Bernoullii dont buy Brazil because same as Russia vettel got a poor start its Webber supposed to stay behind. its elite sport you crack on & turn 3 his issue with bruno senna not turn 1 & 2 wrongs dont make a right.
It's been confirmed by Horner, Newey and others were certain of it as well after Malaysia 2013. In my opinion Rosberg made a mistake by staying behind Hamilton that day. It was his team, he had been there for the past three seasons and he let the new boy steal his cake, who already had enough backing from Lauda and others within the team who desperately wanted him. That's why he had no support in 2014, 2015, 2016, he reduced himself to second fiddle.
 
Bernoulli I seriously hope that your last comment is meant to be in jest otherwise I give up as that is just as ludicrous as suggesting the team stopped his engine.
Well, he's German, I sure he'd rather see a German team than a pampered pseudo-French teammate.

Edit: I'm joking, otherwise I'd really have to go looking for a tinfoil hat.
 
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If Leclerc had the pace to match Vettel he would have kept close to him but he didn't. Leclerc had no good reason to lose time as Hamilton was clser to him than he was close to Vettel, and Hamilton was on the harder compound and so, without SC, it is rerasonable to expect that Hamilton would have been quicker than the Ferraris during the second half of the race (as was the case). For that reason Leclerc had to push as hard as he could (and he did so, the proof is in his tyres), saying that he slowed down given that he was told that the sawp would happen anyway didn't make much sense as he was racing Hamilton as well as Vettel and had to increase his gap to Hamilton as much as he could before the pit stop. That's why I said that IMHO Ferrari had only one chance to win the race: keep Vettel in front and use Leclerc to slow down Hamilton, exactly as they did at Spa (Vettel, the bad guy, accepcted to help his team mate).

Please consider that Leclerc couldn't get close enough to Bottas because in the last 3 corners before the finish line he was losing some ground, his Ferrari was faster on the straight, but Hamilton's Mercedes would have allowed him to keep close to any Ferrari in the last sector of the track and therefore would have enabled him to try and pass going into turn 2.

I don't normally let what I read on the papers influence me but if you consider that every single journalist or pundit in the Italian papers believe that Vettel had earned the right to lead the race and that it was crazy for Ferrari to ask them to swap position then I feel as if my view of the race is not completely odd. And in that list I include people who have consistently been extremely critical of Vettel, like Alberto Antonini (a chap who while he was working for Autosprint was very often quoted as a respected and reliable source by the English speaking media, including some of the media that I have seen linked to in this thread) or Leo Turrini (a chap who is regarded as very close to Ferrari and an admirer of Leclerc, you can find his view of the race here and here)

Well, we are not going to be able to resolve this today....but I am now very curious as to how things are going to develop during the next race, now that the gloves are off between the Ferrari teammates. But what has gotten my attention is not just that Leclerc has outqualified Vettel nine times in a row, but the amounts that he has outqualified him by: 0.8, 0.3 (Q2), 0.6, NA, 0.03, 0.7, 0.2, 0.2, 0.4). I suspect these differences are greater than those between Hamilton and Bottas.
 
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Because Leclerc was waiting to be told he was being let through.
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This, I think, is Leclerc's problem at the moment and is a define disadvantage. He needs to take the bull by the horns and just get on with it. It's understandable that as the younger, newer driver, he is being compliant and dutiful but he needs to remember that all poor behaviour is forgiven as long as he wins. He should just ask his team mate LOL
 
Mod Chat.

Everyone.


Sadly I have let this go on far too long and been guilty of letting my own standards slip.

This thread and several others have descended into personal insults, vitriol and in many areas have been in clear breach of site rules.

Enough is enough now.

Kindly respect the poster and comment on the posts only.

Regards

C_a_T the Mod
 
Bernoulli you can be say it right to defy teamorders. because its a selfish thinking he is above the 600 people & the all mechanics. but mainly because as they say it a because thats not good for binotto. because another incident & there will be questions whose running that team vettel leclerc or binotto
 
This, I think, is Leclerc's problem at the moment and is a define disadvantage. He needs to take the bull by the horns and just get on with it. It's understandable that as the younger, newer driver, he is being compliant and dutiful but he needs to remember that all poor behaviour is forgiven as long as he wins. He should just ask his team mate LOL
It is understandable. He is a young driver, only 21 and his first year at Ferrari. You would expect him to follow orders. Vettel was 22 before he started taking out his teammates. ;)
 
Bernoulli you can be say it right to defy teamorders. because its a selfish thinking he is above the 600 people & the all mechanics. but mainly because as they say it a because thats not good for binotto. because another incident & there will be questions whose running that team vettel leclerc or binotto
Danger of driver running the team is there; Ferrari could become second Mercedes, and we can't have that.
 
Bernoulli you can be say it right to defy teamorders. because its a selfish thinking he is above the 600 people & the all mechanics. but mainly because as they say it a because thats not good for binotto. because another incident & there will be questions whose running that team vettel leclerc or binotto
Binotto is clearly not running the team, he has no authority. Vettel this, Leclerc that, all I want is both to be happy. No Mr. Binotto, it doesn't work like that with two top level drivers get to grips with it.

A racing driver doesn't put himself above 600 other people because he makes his own decisions. They do their jobs and sometimes do things the way they want and the drivers do theirs.
 
Well, we are not going to be able to resolve this today....but I am now very curious as to how things are going to develop during the next race, now that the gloves are off between the Ferrari teammates. But what has gotten my attention is not just that Leclerc has outqualified Vettel nine times in a row, but the amounts that he has outqualified him by: 0.8, 0.3 (Q2), 0.6, NA, 0.03, 0.7, 0.2, 0.2, 0.4). I suspect these differences are greater than those between Hamilton and Bottas.

Leclerc has clearly been faster in qualy, in the last few races Vettel looked more competitive but on his qualy lap he made several mistakes. Also please consider that at Monza is was 1 tenth off Leclerc's time but Leclerc had gained 4 tenths thanks to Vettel's tow, so in fairness Vettel had th speed to be 3 tenths faster than Leclerc. I think that in the last couple of races Vettel was very impressive, he was doing what he has always done best ie. pulling some great times when running in clean air.

My problem with Vettel is that he needs to have a car underneath him that suits his driving style, if he finds a rear end too much to his dislike he gets into trobule. Every driver has his own driving style and his own preferences for the behaviour of their car, Vettel seems to be extra sensitive to that. Normally a driver is supposed to adapt to the car that he has, it often takes time, fair enough, maybe these days with no in season testing it's tougher than it used to be 10 years ago, ok I accept that, but still you should be able to drive around the issues of your car. Vettel IMHO struggles more than other top drivers (I rate Vettel as one of the top 3 guys out there).

Also I think that his attitude doesn't help him: he went to Ferrari to do a Schumacher but he's not Schumacher, he hasn't got the same charisma, the times have changed. On top of that the lack of a manager who can fight his corner IMHO is a major handicap: I'm sure that last Sunday Todt Jnr was fighting for Leclerc whereas Vettel had to fight his corner on his own with the team, IMHO that is a dangerous route because it's easy to ruin the relationship between team and driver.

Finally what is Vettel planning on doing next? having dinner with Bernie and Horner might raise suspicions, he should know that, this is the kind of things that a manager should do (in the shadows)

Having said that I think that Ferrari have made their choice and it's Leclerc, I don't know if at this stage it's a wise choice (notwithstanding the fact that Leclerc is going to be a star, I think that he's got huge potential).

I must also say this even though I know that most of you won't agree: to me Vettel doesn't look like the worst offender out there in terms of bad behaviour towards hs team or his team mate, on the contrary I think that he's one of the nicest guys in the paddock and I think that this is a weakness for his
 
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