Grand Prix 2014 Russian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Greetings, Comrades!!!

Welcome to glorious nation of Russia for Russian Grand Prix, for Russian Grand Prix in former Soviet city of Sochi.

The former holiday-city for many famous Soviet dictators, the city of Sochi plays host to the first Russian Grand Prix, the circuit of which winds its way around the 2014 Winter Olympic Park. There were initially plans for a Soviet Grand Prix around the streets of Moscow, however the Hungarian Grand Prix was created instead. The allure of having a Grand Prix in the world's biggest nation was always seemingly irresistible, and so it has proved.

His Greatness Royal General Secretary King Vladimir will undoubtedly be at the race, and will see it as further proof of Russia's sporting and cultural prowess. Expect the vodka to be flowing and Russian troop hats to be worn!!!

In terms of the weather, it is in glorious former Soviet nation of Russia. In October. But Sochi should be nowhere near as harsh of other areas of Russia. Hopefully the weather shouldn't play too much of a part in this thrilling championship battle - actually, on second thoughts, it would be great if it could!!!

The circuit itself is long - as the race is 52 laps - a 'street' circuit (with runoffs) and there have been unfortunate comparisons to Valencia, but hopefully these fears will be unfounded, and turn 4 does look interesting - it will sure put a test to the right-hand tyres and the left-hand-side of the drivers' necks.

As the championship battle comes to a head, will Hamilton still lead after a race in Putin's fairground, will Rosberg reclaim his place at the top of the standings or will there be another case of a Mercedes car stalin?

 

[cider_and_toast]

Or when he was the most ardent no voter in the resource restriction debate.

 

[Il_leone]

Brogan yeah agree but I am surprised Renault did not the usual French thing and go on strike at all of Red Bull's whining

 

[Mephistopheles]

You have got to give Renault their due they have produced the worst engine on the grid and charge the most money for it, now that's what I call capitalism..

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I'm with Toto on this one. In-season engine development means more development costs, the impossibility of providing parity and equality to customer teams, more scrutineering and FIA testing. If the teams can develop engines through the season, then what is the argument against teams developing chassis through the season? There is the entire off-season to go and design a car for the upcoming season, just as there is an entire off-season to develop an engine for the upcoming season. This is absolutely as it should be. Ferrari are living in the past and Red Bull are sore losers. After having been given an engine by Renault that has won them the last four championships, the way Red Bull are publicly denigrating their partner is absolutely unreal. If I were at Renault, I'd be inclined to tell them to piss off, cut a hole in the bottom of their chassis and get the drivers to use their legs.

 

[Mephistopheles]

It also means Merc maintain their advantage so I'm not surprised one bit by Toto's view, he would probably have a completely different point of vies if the merc engine was shit and he will probably change his mind if Honda come to the races next year with a superior engine..

 

[ExtremeNinja]

It does not mean that Merc maintain their advantage. It means that whoever turns up next year with the best engine maintains thier advantage. The Merc customer teams will repackage their engines in the same way that Mercedes have. They have the same engine but have packaged it with the split-turbo concept. Renault, Ferrari and their customer teams can do the same, in addition to developing the base power unit over the off-season, along with the rest of their packages. Honda are a completely unknown quantity with a history of producing championship winning units.

It protects no advantage. It protects teams and the sport from themselves and itself.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I still think my point is valid and Toto's view is based on the superiority of the merc engine if I am incorrect then why don't the other two engine suppliers support his view? it is simple human nature, you have an advantage and so you support anything that maintains that advantage and if you don't you are hardly likely to support a view that maintains your competitors advantage are you.?

I believe it incorrect to see Toto's view as coming from any sort moral high ground it is simply self serving nothing more and nothing less..

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

Then again, perhaps all development on the car should be frozen from the first race of the season?
I'm very happy Merc are winning this year but development for me is part of what F1 is about and the engine freeze had hindered the opposition. Of course with no freeze Mercedes could have extended their lead but we'll never know.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Because one is stuck in the past and the other (their factory team) is a sore loser. You are also assuming that Mercedes will still have the advantage at the beginning of next season, which ignores the fact that there is off-season development. I can feel a circular argument coming on, so I'll rest at that.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

rufus_mcdufus . I don't think anybody wants a spec series but there has to be some restriction. Testing, engine development and chassis development seems the sensible place to draw the line, to me. We have recently seen Red Bull dominate seasons and even win out at "power-circuits" with an underpowered Renault powerplant within the current constraints, or with the current freedoms, depending on how you want to look at it.

 

[Mephistopheles]

You are also assuming that Mercedes will still have the advantage at the beginning of next season,

I did not say that in fact I put forward a scenario where Honda could come to next season with an advantage and if they did it still would not change my view on Toto's comments or my belief that in season engine freeze is a totally shit idea these engine suppliers have got shit loads of money let them spend it as they please....

 

[ExtremeNinja]

It's not just the teams, though, which is the other point I made and that you have ignored. It's the extra testing and scrutineering that would also have to take place. There was a further point, too, that the customer teams would get left behind and end up with B-Spec engines. It would be fine if all teams manufactured their own powerplants, but they don't. The current rules promote equality and parity, whereas a drop of the freeze during the season would promote the opposite, I know I said I would "rest on that", but I had only re-iterated the first point, not realising I would subsequently have to re-iterate the other two.

 

[ATL11]

Tough shit.

He never felt the same when RBR had the infamous bendy front wing or the best EBD.

Or even when Red Bull went whining to Pirelli and got the tyres changed to suit their needs for the remainder of the season..........

 

[snowy]

There is no significant cost saving in maintaining the freeze because Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari are constantly working flat out developing their power units. If there was to be an unfreezing any team that did not have the very latest developments to throw at their units would be instantly in the shit. They all have the very latest and greatest ideas and modifications, tried and tested and ready for homologation.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Allow through season development but cost cap the customer engines so that they are all supplied at the same price. Make the manufacturer spend the money on development but don't punish the customer teams for it.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

...and what about the potential for customer engines always being behind in terms of introduced upgrades, thus stifling their ability to be competitive?

 

[Incubus]

The recent and current cost-cutting measures are totally ineffective long-term and it's blindingly obvious when you look at the number of entrants. There used to be no retrictions on testing, engines and spare cars. And there were more entrants, full-capactity grids and often the need to qualify for a race.

 

[cider_and_toast]

ExtremeNinja, You'd have to mandate as part of resource control that a supplier could not discriminate between teams I would guess.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

It wouldn't be through discrimination, but a matter of practicality. It is for practical purposes that the rule exists. If an engine were developed and brought to races during a season then works teams would need to have unlimited testing again in order to ensure that they bring 4, 6, or 8 identical units to each race that are tested and reliable. That would mean that the manufacturers would be out running lap after lap whilst their customers sit and wait for the produce. The alternative is that the teams run the engine upgrades themselves before passing them to customer teams. It is unworkable in the modern era to have continuous development of the power plants through the season. I think people are looking at the past with rose tinted spectacles.

If I am Williams and I build my car around and engine and then at the second race Merc turn up and give me another one that I have to redesign my car around and then it turns out that the engine blows up after 15 laps then I am screwed through no fault of my own.

The key words are "practicality" and "stability", the second of those used by Toto. Customer teams need a stable platform to work on and need as much parity as can be allowed. The current rules enforce that very elegantly.

The days of unlimited development are gone and the sport has moved on. These notions need to be left in the past along with corporal punishment in the school system, however much you feel that the kids of today need a good spanking.

 

[cider_and_toast]

So if it's that hard, why regulate a freeze then ??