2011 Team mates comparison - #12 McLaren

[Galahad]

Saving the best 'til last, here's the all-British battle at McLaren:.

For a full explanation of the chart, see the previous Force India thread.

Additional Notes

Q3 times have been used for the qualifying comparisons in all cases except Monaco (where Hamilton's time was deleted for cutting the chicane) and Belgium (where Button failed to progress to Q3), where Q2 times have been used. The overall qualifying comparisons exclude the two wet races.

Here also are the actual qualifying and finishing positions:

	AUS	MAL	PRC	TUR	ESP	MON	CAN	GBR	GER	HUN	BEL	ITA	SGP	JPN	KOR	IND	ABU	BRA
Hamilton (Q)	2	2	3	4	3	9	5	10	2	2	2	2	4	3	1	5	2	4
Hamilton (R)	2	8	1	4	2	6	R	4	1	4	R	4	5	5	2	7	1	R
Button (Q)	4	4	2	6	5	2	7	5	7	3	13	3	3	2	3	4	3	3
Button (R)	6	2	4	6	3	3	1	R	R	1	3	2	2	1	4	2	3	3

One of the closer intra-team battles of the year, then, but we knew that already. I think I'll leave the rest of the interpretation down to you...

 

[Brogan]

I think I'll leave the rest of the interpretation down to you...

That's a cop-out if ever I saw one

I'd just like to say this series of threads has been fascinating - many thanks G.

 

[Il_leone]

I wonder what the odds were Button being Hamilton over a season and I am waiting for the first conspiracy theory?

I seem to remember a lot of people rubbished Mark Hughes' claims that Button vs Hamilton will intensify after Bahrain last year

How about the next excuse why Button is not a top driver following on from

Won't win a race...
Won't be world champion...
Won't drive for a top team (thats Mclaren or Ferrari by definition)...
Won't beat Hamilton...

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I wonder what the odds were Button being Hamilton over a season and I am waiting for the first conspiracy theory?

I had a good bet down on Hamilton being Button over a season but every time I tuned in Button was still Button. I've been following this trend for sometime and in fact Button has always been Button. so if anyone wants to make the same bet, I'll double the best odds you can find.

I thought your post was baiting a little, so thought best just to make light of it.

 

[Brogan]

What the chart and the season tells us is:

Overall Hamilton out qualified Button.
Hamilton led more laps than Button.
Hamilton led Button for 5 complete races (6 but for 1 lap at Korea).
Button led Hamilton for 3 complete races.

Also...
Hamilton had 1 pole position, Button had 0.
Hamilton out qualified Button 13 times to 6.
Both drivers had 3 wins.
Button had 11 fastest laps, Hamilton had 8.
Both drivers had 3 overall fastest laps.
Button finished ahead of Hamilton 10 times, Hamilton ahead of Button 9 times.
Button had 17 points finishes, Hamilton had 16.
Button had 12 podiums to Hamilton's 6 (the deciding factor IMO).
Button finished 3 places and 43 points ahead of Hamilton in the WDC.

So that's the McLaren intra-team battle in statistics.

FACT!

 

[ExtremeNinja]

What the chart and the season tells us is:
Button finished 2 3 places and 43 points ahead of Hamilton in the WDC.

FACT!

Fixed

 

[teabagyokel]

• Button was slower than Hamilton
• Hamilton made more errors (tactical and driving) than Button

That is the shape of what happened at McLaren this year

 

[Road of Bones]

I think it shows that being able to think one's way through a race paid off better than having a bucket-full of "raw pace" - plus managing not to run into Felipe Massa at every apparent opportunity obviously helped keep Jenson ahead.

...I have another theory about the fluids of a certain parent, but I'll not go into them on this thread...

 

[Il_leone]

• Button was slower than Hamilton
• Hamilton made more errors (tactical and driving) than Button

That is the shape of what happened at McLaren this year

Slower in quali and slower in the first part of the race before coming on strongly was what usually happened with Button

 

[Il_leone]

I had a good bet down on Hamilton being Button over a season but every time I tuned in Button was still Button. I've been following this trend for sometime and in fact Button has always been Button. so if anyone wants to make the same bet, I'll double the best odds you can find.

I thought your post was baiting a little, so thought best just to make light of it.

We're not on 606 anymore which is guaranteed to be the case if this post went up with the usual anti Lewis conspiracy at Mclaren for being slower than Button



Murray Walker has done his latest Q & A on the BBC and he is adamant both drivers were given equal opportunities 2011

 

[ExtremeNinja]

We're not on 606 anymore which is guaranteed to be the case if this post went up with the usual anti Lewis conspiracy at Mclaren for being slower than Button

I don't understand this sentence or what relevance 606 has to your comment or even this forum. 606 is dead and buried. Let's leave it in the ground, shall we?

[EDIT] Sorry for going into keyboard warrior mode. I just got a little niggled.

 

[The Pits]

To be honest, I am not sure what the numbers actually show. As a big JB fan, there are things that I would love to be able to say about his performance vs Lewis, but I cannot, as Lewis showed that he is never to be underestimated, and showed why through several races last season.

I think to be honest last season was a game of two halves for Jenson, with some poor results at the start, and a run of 8 podiums in 9 races to close out the season, including a dry weather win at Suzuka.

Lewis showed serious flashes of brilliance, notably in China and Germany, and I wont go into the down side, as this has been covered ad nauseum.

I am sure that many will interpret the stats in any one of a billion ways, to back up their own opinions, me too, to be honest (in the privacy of my own home I hasten to add!) but, 2 seasons together, 1 season each, against expectations, and an enticing battle for the coming year!

 

[gethinceri]

^great post. Balanced and non inflammatory, and fits my own view!

 

[FB]

All this chart shows to me is the favouritism show to Button by Ron Dennis and how and how lenient the stewards were to Lewis during the season. I have got that right haven't I?

 

[downforce]

I think if this shows anything its that tyres and race pace wern't really the issue for Hamilton this year

He was ahead of Button for more laps of the year than the other way around
race pace doesn't appear to be an issue
He comfortably beat Button in qualifying
He got the teams only pole position
He matched Buttons number of fastest laps and wins

This reinforces the issue was getting into too many accidents and recieving too many punishments from stewards

The latest theory is he has had depression, 2012 will be interesting

 

[Il_leone]

I think if this shows anything its that tyres and race pace wern't really the issue for Hamilton this year

He was ahead of Button for more laps of the year than the other way around
race pace doesn't appear to be an issue
He comfortably beat Button in qualifying
He got the teams only pole position
He matched Buttons number of fastest laps and wins

This reinforces the issue was getting into too many accidents and recieving too many punishments from stewards

The latest theory is he has had depression, 2012 will be interesting

Crucially he failed to see the chequered flag ahead of Button which matters most on top of his accidents and penalties from the stewards

 

[Brogan]

There was only 1 race in it - 10:9 in Button's favour.
Even if it was 10:9 in Hamilton's favour, he would still have finished behind in the WDC.

The main difference was the number of podiums, as I stated earlier.

 

[Il_leone]

There was only 1 race in it - 10:9 in Button's favour.
Even if it was 10:9 in Hamilton's favour, he would still have finished behind in the WDC.

The main difference was the number of podiums, as I stated earlier.

Hence not seeing the flag before Button which matters most ala Prost vs Senna.. we all know Senna would be faster than Prost and lead more laps but Prost would always manage to keep up with him and get ahead of somehow later in the race

 

[Brogan]

There was only one flag in it all season.

That was not the deciding factor.

 

[downforce]

The Korea one looks funny

54
1