Team Mate Battles 2014

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
So we are 6 races in which is just under a third of the way through the season so I thought it was a good time to look at the team mate duels we have had going off so far this season.

We are often quoted with the qualifying stats and who is in front in the championship standards is plain to see but exactly how close are they results wise?

Something I've done on a reg basis for the last two seasons, which I think is a good reflection of how close they are, is look at how many points the losing driver has scored compared to the winning driver as a percentage. Whilst its not an infallible measure it does give a good reflection on how close a second based team mate has been to achieving what the lead team mate has done and also is a good way to compare the different team mate battles.

Obviously for this stat to work the drivers have to have scored points which rules out Sauber and Caterham. Meanwhile Grosjean and Bianchi have 100% more points that their team mates so the stat is pretty one dimensional. On the other end of the scale JEV and Kyvat are all square on equal points. Because of that I've not included them in the stats. The rest however are below.

Hamilton has scored 96.7% of the points Rosberg has.

Vettel has scored 83.3% of the points that Ricciardo has.

Kmag has scored 67.7% of the points Button has.

Massa has scored 52.9% of the points Bottas has.

Perez has scored 42.5% of the points Hulkenberg has.

Kimi has scored 27.8% of the points Alonso has.

I don't think anyone expect Rosberg and Ricciardo to be in front at this stage but they are certainly both in striking distance for their world champion team mates. I was surprised Vettel wasn't further behind if I'm honest.

Whilst behind I think KMag getting 67.7% of the points Button did is impressive and is certainly closer to Button than Perez ever was. Speaking of Perez it will come as a shock to some that he finds himself in a similar position than he did at Mclaren with a team mate who has more that double his points. It seems he grabs eye catching results but lacks consistancy.

I was surprised Bottas is so far ahead of Massa but over at Massa's old team comes the biggest shock. In what was pinned as the closest team mate battle we'd see in 2014 we have the biggest gap with Alonso having nearly 3 times the points Kimi has which is actually far worse than Massa was compared to him last year.

So where are we on our team mate battles? Have we changed our minds? Do these stats surprise you? Do you think its a useful stat?

At the end of the day points mean prizes and whilst I understand there are variables I do think the percentage stat is a good way to show how each driver is doing in comparison.
 
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no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
Hamilton is ahead of Rosberg on merit, but not in actual points.

Vettel has actually been quite unlucky, but then again so has Ricciardo with the lost podium, the drive through and the grid drop in Bahrain.

Magnussen is more or less living up to my expectations, he would be more or less level with Button if it were not for bad luck in Monaco. I also think his efforts have not been fully appreciated, after all Button is a world champion who generally was no pushover for Hamilton.

Perhaps the most surprising battle for me is at Marussia. Up until Monaco Max Chilton had pretty much comprehensively outperformed Bianchi!
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
For a lesson on how teammates should behave, just look at 1967. Here was the late, great Sir Jack Brabham, getting beaten to the title by his own teammate (in the very team that Jack created and owned) Denis Hulme, yet there was no hint of the sniveling, whining and backstabbing that prevail today. Try to imagine how any of today's lot would be acting if they were put into Sir Jack's position!
 
For a lesson on how teammates should behave, just look at 1967. Here was the late, great Sir Jack Brabham, getting beaten to the title by his own teammate (in the very team that Jack created and owned) Denis Hulme, yet there was no hint of the sniveling, whining and backstabbing that prevail today. Try to imagine how any of today's lot would be acting if they were put into Sir Jack's position!

I guess "today" extends back to at least the days of Gilles Villenueve.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Actually, the first I remember was 1981, Alan Jones and Carlos Ruetteman (?) at Williams. They had the best car. In one of the early races, Carlos, who was clearly named as the no. 2 driver in his contract, refused to let Jones past, and went on to win, with Jones being second. The relationship totally fell apart from that point. At the end of the season, they had finished second and third in the championship, despite having the best car. Alan retired at the end of that season, whereupon Carlos suggested that they "bury the hatchet". Jones's reply: "yeah, in your friggin' back, mate".

Gilles and Pironi came after that, with even more dire consequences.

Ignoring the fatal results of the latter relationship, it needs to be remembered that: 1) in both years, the squabbles led to neither team driver winning the WDC despite having the best car, and 2), even as frosty as those relationships were, you still didn't hear all the whining and sniping that goes on today.

I'm not saying that drivers today shouldn't have disagreements, I AM saying that the continual sniveling in public can only make matters worse, as well as bring the sport into disrepute. The drivers all need to GROW UP.
 
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teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
I think Pironi would have won the title had he been able to complete the season; I think that's a slightly unfair comparison.

Clearly, Jones/Reutemann (1981), Piquet/Mansell (1986) and Alonso/Hamilton (2007) contributed to title defeats.

1982 is probably a great example though - Arnoux/Prost and Lauda/Watson lost the title being too even in comparison with Daly/Rosberg.

Not that losing anything affects Mercedes...
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
Magnussen is more or less living up to my expectations, he would be more or less level with Button if it were not for bad luck in Monaco. I also think his efforts have not been fully appreciated, after all Button is a world champion who generally was no pushover for Hamilton.

And had both drivers not had bad luck in Bahrain, then Button would be streets ahead! - Button was looking likely for at least 5th, and possibly 3rd, Magnussen was looking at best at 8th.
 

Bill Boddy

Professional layabout
Contributor
Unless you filter out the problems not due to driver error the result is always going to be skewed in favour of those having fewer problems. A percentage would be better with the lead driver in each team getting a point per place for each position above his rival. Even that would not tell the whole truth though.

It still makes for an interesting read though. Except in the case of Max Chilton.:)
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
I think Pironi would have won the title had he been able to complete the season; I think that's a slightly unfair comparison.

Clearly, Jones/Reutemann (1981), Piquet/Mansell (1986) and Alonso/Hamilton (2007) contributed to title defeats.

1982 is probably a great example though - Arnoux/Prost and Lauda/Watson lost the title being too even in comparison with Daly/Rosberg.

Not that losing anything affects Mercedes...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
82 - Pironi was comfortably ahead of the rest until his accident although running out of petrol at MOnaco proved very costly

Prost was comfortable ahead that race but crashed because it started to rain but was not happy Arnoux ignored team orders in France but the Renault proved also to be fragile

--------------------------

81 - Reutemann's double cross meant Jones felt betrayed and from then on Williams had to impose that both drivers get equal opportunities.. it meant they had 4 cars for the last race. Still Reutemann did not help himself with a mid season slump to throw away the lead.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Kimi may have had a lot of the bad luck against Alonso but he cant afford any slip ups as Fernando usually takes advantage of every opportunity
 

Mika's Italian Tears

Points Scorer
As a Ferrari fan, the two most striking observations from the above:

Massa has always been a mid-tier driver. His run at Ferrari was overstretched due to factors behind comprehension and he is a very average driver who would never have had the stats he has if it wasn't for his luck which took him to Ferrari. Thank god he didn't win the title in '08

Alonso continues to be a very consistent and competitive driver. I know its early days for Kimi at Ferrari and he will take time to adjust, but Alonso continues his track record of not being beaten by his teammates (LH fans, they were level on points in '07). But I still feel Kimi will show a good fightback in the 2nd half of the season (or retire again after next year :))
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
Massa has always been a mid-tier driver. His run at Ferrari was overstretched due to factors behind comprehension and he is a very average driver who would never have had the stats he has if it wasn't for his luck which took him to Ferrari. Thank god he didn't win the title in '08:)

This is a common opinion and not one I'm saying is incorrect but are we are we at the point yet where we have to revalue our rating of Massa? Purely on the fact that Kimi, who always comes highly rated, is fairing no better in comparison to Alonso than Massa was. In fact, using the above stats, Kimi is worse off at this stage of the season than Felipe was.

I know we're a long way off but if the current position is the same at the end of the year does it make Massa's recent performances not look as bad or do we conclude Kimi has become an 'average' driver?
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
I think Raikkonen has been quite unlucky so far what with Magnussen colliding twice, Alonso treatment in Spain, Monaco punctures and his Fridays have been disrupted quite a bit which then hampers form later on in the weekend. Alonso will still beat him but the current gap isn't how they truly compare I believe.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
These results would suggest that Raikkonen's relative equality to Massa in their two-and-a-half year spell at Ferrari is indicative of the levels of talent involved, and that Ferrari deserve more credit for their 2007-08 designs.

These are, however, extremely early days in the Raikkonen/Alonso partnership, so this impression may well be lanced by the season's end.
 

Wombcat

Podium Finisher
It should be quite easy to compare Raikkonen en Massa to each other, after all they've been in the same team for 2½ years.
During that time: Raikkonen 203 points Massa 213. Raikkonen 8 wins, Massa 9. Raikkonen 5 poles, Massa 12. Quali: 20 Raikkonen, 25 Massa.
The difference is that Raikkonen won the WDC with one point, while Massa lost it with one.

Based on that I'm not surprised that Raikkonen isn't close to Alonso. I'm just surprised that he's doing so much worse at Ferrari at the moment than Massa did the last three years.

Edit: teabagyokel beat me to it
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
I think it should be noted Raikkonen only became world champ because Massa moved over....I find it interesting to hear how Alonso seems to think Massa is just as good if not better than Raikkonen.
 
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