Grand Prix 2011 Malaysian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Typical F1.
You wait months for a race and then 2 come along in the space of a few weeks.

This weekend will see the 13th race at the Sepang circuit; will it be unlucky for some?
For a most excellent circuit write-up, see Galahad's musings here, along with enough stat's and data to satisfy the most ardent of nerds: Sepang International Circuit

2009 is remembered for the later start and torrential rain which resulted in the race being red flagged after 33 laps; making it only the fifth race in F1 history to be stopped before 75% of the distance had been completed.

Ferrari and McLaren will no doubt be aiming to make it into Q2 after their amateurish mistakes last year.
With rain forecast for the weekend though, the chances of one or more of the top drivers making a mistake is fairly high.

This race is probably make or break for HRT.
If they don't manage to qualify within 107% of the fastest time in Q1 and are once again stopped from participating in the Grand Prix, then you have to assume it's all over for them.

So, lots to look forward to. Let's hope it's not a Red Bull walkover and qualifying is a lot closer than Australia.

 

[EvilWhippet]

I can't see how they could give either driver a penalty. Alonso for the reasons stated above, and Hamilton because he moved defensively, then when he moved again Alonso followed. He didn't react and block Alonso, plus there have been much more glaring instances of multiple blocking as pointed out by Hamberg.

 

[Hamberg]

Perhaps they deemed the resulting damage and consequent grid drop sufficient. They could hardly give Hamilton a 20 second penalty and Alonso more - since neither actually warranted censure.

The next level of severity in penalties is a 5 grid drop for the next race. That would have been completely out of order.

Valencia 2010 people - swings and roundabouts.

 

[teabagyokel]

The next level of severity in penalties is a 5 grid drop for the next race. That would have been completely out of order.

Valencia 2010 people - swings and roundabouts.

Ahh, naturally, but they may as well not over-police the sport anyway.

 

[EvilWhippet]

Otherwise known as "karma."

 

[Hamberg]

I think we all agree that neither driver should have been penalised?

 

[teabagyokel]

Of course. Was it EeiJit who said Alonso's move was like Webber/Kovalainen from Valencia?

 

[Pyrope]

Seems I'm going to go against the grain slightly here, and state that Hamilton did move more than once and so the penalty was in line with the rules. Why others (Massa and Vettel, primarily) weren't also given drive throughs is beyond me, but in the video you can clearly see that Lewis moves sharply left (his left) after coming out of the final corner, then right to take up a position in the middle of the track, then sharply left again, back out to the racing line, before moving right again before the braking zone. That's four moves, not one. As for following the marble-free line? No, he ran over the marbles at least twice, one of which was into the braking zone.

If anything, I think Alonso's penalty was the more unfair. The only race he harmed was his own, and he paid for that with one very slow lap followed by an extra trip to the pits. Lewis was slow before they touched and he was slow after they touched. Bad set of tyres, not Fernando.

 

[teabagyokel]

Lewis was slow before they touched and he was slow after they touched. Bad set of tyres, not Fernando.

This being the key point. What actually happened to Lewis needs to be considered, because he really should not have finished that race anywhere near 7th. During the third stint, was Lewis holding Jenson up?*

Pyrope, by the published regulations, he's red-handed.

*Never thought I'd ever have recourse to type that question

 

[Brogan]

As far as the rules concerning defending and changing direction are concerned, Hamilton is guilty and deserved the penalty.
As did Vettel.
As did Massa in the last race.
As did Vettel in the last race for completing on overtaking move while off the circuit.
As did Buemi in the last race for completing on overtaking move while off the circuit.

Inconsistent application of the rules and poor stewarding is a blight on Formula One.

 

[Pyrope]

This being the key point. What actually happened to Lewis needs to be considered, because he really should not have finished that race anywhere near 7th. During the third stint, was Lewis holding Jenson up?*

Pyrope, by the published regulations, he's red-handed.

*Never thought I'd ever have recourse to type that question

That third set of tyres was just awful for him. As snowy already showed he was a clear 2-3 seconds per lap slower than Jenson on those boots, and even after having his diffuser nibbled at by Fernando's Ferrari he was able to put in a quick lap on the newer rubber.

 

[teabagyokel]

As did Vettel in the last race for completing on overtaking move while off the circuit.
As did Buemi in the last race for completing on overtaking move while off the circuit.

Inconsistent application of the rules and poor stewarding is a blight on Formula One.

And how is that inconsistent? Same crime, no punishment either way. And you'll never convince me that cutting a corner and passing someone is the same as cutting a straight (?) and passing someone. Especially since there are agreements between the Race Director and the Drivers in play when dealing with what is and isn't a "cut".

If Vettel was punishable on turn 1, so was the entire field. And much as I'd like to see 23 cars doing a simultaneous drive-through penalty while Karthikeyan leads, I don't think it would be an edifying spectacle to most people.

The reason Hamilton was punished was that he served his warning for his ridiculous weaving in front of Petrov at last year's Malaysian Grand Prix. In other words, he had been warned and he reoffended.

But there is no way you can police the first corner like that. That is a totally unreasonable expectation.

 

[Pyrope]

It was interesting to hear Jenson, in the news conference, say just how good his car was on his final set of tyres. It would seem that the McLaren is inconveniently sensitive to small manufacturing vagaries in the Pirellis.

 

[Brogan]

And how is that inconsistent?

Taken in the wider context of my post (nice bit of selective quoting there), it's inconsistent as those were offences as defined in the rules and regulations, no different in scope to Hamilton's offence, and yet weren't punished.

Looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree TBY.
Vettel's offence was just as bad, if not worse, than Hamilton's.

But there is no way you can police the first corner like that. That is a totally unreasonable expectation.

I seem to recall Hamilton being penalised for a first lap, first corner offence at Fuji.
So it does happen...sometimes...for some drivers.

 

[Jen]

As far as the rules concerning defending and changing direction are concerned, Hamilton is guilty and deserved the penalty.
As did Vettel.
As did Massa in the last race.
As did Vettel in the last race for completing on overtaking move while off the circuit.
As did Buemi in the last race for completing on overtaking move while off the circuit.

Inconsistent application of the rules and poor stewarding is a blight on Formula One.

Why do we expect so much from the stewards, they are only humans and are given "direction" before each race, I'm sure.

Inconsistency is rife in the modern world - from the NHS, to football, to the world of finance, to personal choices - ad nauseum.

A purely philosophical point of view and, maybe, off topic.

F1 is merely a casualty of modern times

 

[Brogan]

I didn't see anything on screen which warranted Hamilton's post race penalty A damaged wing was sufficient penalty for Alonso's misjudgement

http://twitter.com/#!/MBrundleF1/status/57106742244425729

 

[Jen]

http://twitter.com/#!/MBrundleF1/status/57106742244425729

I'm with Brundle - but then I believe in racing for it's own sake.

 

[johnnoble1990]

Fantastic race. Big win for Pirelli and DRS. A lot of the worry about it is it wouldn't need skill and would be too easy. None of that showed today. Some of the overtakes were stunning.

On the Hamilton penalty, i don't think it should even be a rule. It worked fine when it was an unwritten and nonpunishable offense. Making it a rule was always going to open a can of worms.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

To be honest, neither Alonso nor Hamilton really deserved any investigation, let alone penalties. They were racing; Hamilton defended, Alonso made an error of judgement when attempting to overtake, no-one else was affected, and that should have been the end of it.
This whole 'weaving' or making more than one defensive move, is yet another thing we have to thank Mr Schumacher for. It was his habit of making violent and often dangerous swerves across the line of anyone trying to pass him, particularly at the first corner, that led directly to the rule that is in force today.

 

[Pyrope]

On the Hamilton penalty, i don't think it should even be a rule. It worked fine when it was an unwritten and nonpunishable offense. Making it a rule was always going to open a can of worms.

Not sure I understood that comment. What worked fine? If you are saying that there was little weaving and chopping then you are right, but it wasn't through any great self-control on the part of the drivers. It was just the culture; a hang on from the Corinthian ideals of the early days. Senna started to change that, and when Schumi started to try and actively drive his competitors off the road at every opportunity then the rest had to follow. This widespread lack of sportsmanship forced the FIA to legislate against it.

Chopping across your opponent isn't great driving, it is a cheap move made by poor drivers to force your opponent to back off. That Lewis and Seb still feel that they need to employ it says a lot more about their characters than is flattering for either of them. A skillful driver should only need one move to keep an equally-paced opponent back. Nick H. showed how it should be done when he was challenged by Webber. Personally, I'm glad Lewis was penalised. I love his car control, but I hate his judgement. It just isn't on.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Inconsistent application of the rules and poor stewarding is a blight on Formula One.

And poor or unnecessary rules in the first place.