Grand Prix 2010 European Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The fair way is a red flag and a restart with an aggregate winner. But I don't hear many people calling for that to come back. If you enslave yourself to TV there are going to be consequences.
 

Brogan

Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

This is what Alonso said on the radio to the team for those who didn't hear it:

Alonso said:
Get Charlie (Whiting, the FIA Race Director) onto the Hamilton case – it's the only thing you have to do all race.
Also, the delay in penalising Hamilton was because Whiting and the stewards wanted to be absolutely sure that a penalty was justified. Hamilton at first seemed to slow down when he saw the Safety Car out of the corner of his eye, then realised that the Safety Car line was further up the road and carried on. Whether he got there before the Safety Car or not, was a close call.

Proving it was no simple matter. Race control has the use of a GPS system but there was no back-up timing loop at that point and so they had to find footage of the incident. That was initially from the wrong angle and was inconclusive and so they had to locate aerial footage. There was also the question of exactly where the timing transponders were on Hamilton's car and the Safety Car respectively which, if you are talking about less than a car's length, is significant. That all needed to be checked and speeds/distances ratified.

The FIA also pointed out that the speeding penalties for cars during their pit stop laps under the Safety Car were relatively lenient because many of them were doing 180mph plus within a couple of hundred metres of the Safety Car line when the car was deployed and could do little about it. They may have broken the letter of the law but not its spirit. The conclusion has to be that on this occasion Hamilton was fortunate and Ferrari the opposite.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22390.html
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I would not back a return to an aggregate winner, but I don't see why they can't red flag it and just start again - 1 lap under SC - and race to the line. We wouldn't lose anything there, it has to be said.

I would also say that I believe that it would now be feasible to close the pitlane under SC because there is no refueling!

However, it has to be said that after seeing an accident of that magnitude it is irrelevant for us to talk about SC rules without the priority being to ensure that Mark Webber was given some medical attention to prove his ability to continue.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Quote from the BBC website from Lewis:

And when news of Alonso's anger was relayed to him, Hamilton said the Spaniard should stick to analysing his own performance.

"It's good to know his weak point, I guess," Hamilton, who spent a tumultuous season alongside Alonso as team-mates at McLaren, told BBC Sport.

"I just focus on my job, so maybe he should have done that."
Appropriate response methinks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8766420.stm
 

slickskid

Points Scorer
Supporter
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

In between all the whining of Alonso etc etc and the usual banter forwith

It should be noted that there were 9 different contructors finished in the points this race. Not sure thats ever happened before.
 

Brogan

Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

slickskid said:
It should be noted that there were 9 different contructors finished in the points this race. Not sure thats ever happened before.
I was going to post that earlier but forgot.

McLaren were the only team to have 2 cars in the points.
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Fernando is whining little bitch
 

Brogan

Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Speshal said:
I'm just watching the replay and hamilton was behind the SC - Fernando is whining little bitch
That's why he's whining :D
Because Lewis overtook the SC and effectively gained an advantage due to the drive through having no effect on his position (thanks partly to Kobayashi who held everyone up).

If Lewis had dropped in behind the SC then he would have ended up around the same place as Alonso.

The irony is if Lewis hadn't hesitated for that split second then he would have crossed the 2nd SC line just before the SC and scampered off like Vettel did with no repercussions.
 

Matthew Little

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Speshal said:
I'm just watching the replay and hamilton was behind the SC - Fernando is whining little bitch
Speshal, Fernando's been a whining little :censored: ever since he and Hamilton were teammates at McLaren back in '07............ :o :o :o :o

Of course, having 2 WDC's on your resume does tend to allow you to act like that at times............... :o
 

Brogan

Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Can anyone explain where the 5 second time penalty came from?

This is from the FIA reg's: http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8683/fia.html

16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b).
16.4 Should the stewards decide to impose either of the penalties under Article 16.3a) or b), the following procedure will be followed :
a) The stewards will give written notification of the penalty which has been imposed to the competitor concerned and will ensure that this information is also displayed on the timing monitors.
b) From the time the stewards’ decision is notified on the timing monitors the relevant driver may cross the Line on the track no more than twice before entering the pit lane and, in the case of a penalty under Article 16.3b), proceeding to his garage where he shall remain for the period of the time penalty.
However, unless the driver was already in the pit entry for the purpose of serving his penalty, he may not carry out the penalty after the safety car has been deployed. The number of times the driver crosses the Line behind the safety car will be added to the maximum number of times he may cross the Line on the track.
Whilst a car is stationary in the pit lane as a result of incurring a time penalty it may not be worked on. However, if the engine stops it may be started after the time penalty period has elapsed.
c) When the time penalty period has elapsed the driver may rejoin the race.
d) Any breach or failure to comply with Articles 16.4b) or c) may result in the car being excluded.
As far as I can see, the only penalties that can be awarded after the race has ended are 20 seconds in lieu of a drive through and 30 seconds in lieu of a stop go.

Why couldn't they give Schumacher a 5 second penalty in Monaco if that is clearly an option?

Also, Nico Hülkenberg retired so effectively didn't get any penalty.
I thought in cases like that it was carried over in some form to the next race?

Good to see the rules and regulations are as clear as always :D
 

Brogan

Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Thanks G.

Makes you wonder why they didn't apply similar leniency to Schumacher then bearing in mind the conflicting signals on the rack track.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Whilst agreeing that Alonso needs to get over his paranoia, look at it from his angle -

Whilst catching the 2 cars in front, the safety car is deployed. At that moment, Hamilton in front of him slows. I've not seen an overhead shot, but at the time Hamilton was about 1 - 1.5s ahead of Alonso. If, and it's only an if, Hamilton slowed enough to back up Alonso, who then saw Hamilton accelerate again and jump the safety car, leaving Alonso behind, you can understand why he feels hard done by. What he doesn't know is that it's driver error/hesitation, rather than a deliberate stitch up. He still needs to toughen up, though.

Edit: Video found,

It's debatable isn't it? Had Hamilton maintained speed, would Alonso have got through as well? It would have been close, but not cut and dried. In the end though, just bad luck for Alonso, no malice involved.
 

Brogan

Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

A couple of stills too which show just how close it was.





And Mark wiping out an advertising hoarding hanging over the track.




Judging by the captions on that video, I'm guessing it was uploaded by an Alonso fan and someone who doesn't particularly like Hamilton.
 

Attachments

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

That may well be true, I didn't take much notice of the 'commentary' to be honest.

It seems Bernie "You could put an advert in that space" Ecclestone didn't take heed of the problems experienced in Brazil a few years ago. Just be grateful the accident didn't happen 200 yards further up the road, as the DHL bridge might not have given way quite so easily.
 

Brogan

Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Still no mention of the bottle that was thrown onto the track from the FIA.
I would have expected some sort of statement concerning safety and the circuit's future if further incidents occur.

Ferrari are still going on about it and now claim the race results are "false".
Oh the irony

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84875
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
Still no mention of the bottle that was thrown onto the track from the FIA.
I would have expected some sort of statement concerning safety and the circuit's future if further incidents occur.
This is a GP held in Spain don't forget. If blacking yourself up and standing there with a sign saying "The Hamilton Family" is deemed perfectly acceptable then throwing a bottle on to the circuit can be little more than a bit of harmless fun.

:givemestrength:
 

Brogan

Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Ferrari are ramping up the rhetoric.
However they're doing it in such a way as to escape punishment by using quotes they claim are from users in their own forum on their website.

Things such as "McLaren thieves" who were "up to their usual dirty tricks".

Another user posted: "The FIA at Valencia showed it's not entirely in charge of the events that it's organising", and yet another added: "Is this the latest version of Jean Todt? Those who order and manipulate are always the same."

Then there was the: "Federation of clowns! What help is a five-second penalty? Useless and the usual English mafia!"

Another: "Enough with the help for Hamilton. How can he lie and cheat and still get away scot-free?"

Disregarding the irony of Ferrari fans claiming the FIA "mafia" are "always the same" in that they help McLaren (what short memorys Ferrari fans have), this is nothing short of sticking 2 fingers up at the FIA.
Is this really the way for a major F1 team to behave?
I don't recall any other team behaving in this way, even McLaren when they were under siege for the last few years of Ron Dennis' tenure.
In fact it was quite the opposite, they acted with dignity and professionalism at all times.

It has been said several times now that Max Mosley would not have stood for this and there would have been repercussions, even if it was Ferrari.

Is Jean Todt going to act or will he fail his first big test?
 

McZiderRed

Champion Elect
Supporter
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

As I was out on a "relaxing" walk, before watching the Germany v :censored: world cup game, I didn't watch the race.

Did I miss anything good..? :dunno:
 
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