Grand Prix 2010 European Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

FB said:
So what's fair, time penalties or grid places at the next race?
I am of the opinion that penalties awarded in a race should be applied at that race.

Only for certain cases should they be carried over, if a driver retires for example making any penalty null and void.
 

KraXik

Rookie
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Bit out of order by Alonso and Domencalli. Hamilton didn't "ruin or wreck" their race and if Alonso was in Hamiltons position he would have done exactly the same (perhaps without the hesitation).

They should be angry/annoyed at the saftey car, not Hamilton. Hamilton had a zero effect on their race.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I find myself wondering what is wrong with Mercedes brakes? Both drivers were receiving warnings about them over the radio in very early laps. I am unaware of any other team having similar problems. Another puzzling thing regarding Merc--since Schumacher was able to turn in numerous fastest laps, it appears that the car has, on occasion, the needed speed. So why are they mired in mid field most of the time?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Didn't Mercedes have the new blown exhaust update at this race?
If so then that could account for it?

Hot exhaust gasses at 800°C blowing over the rear wheels can't help with cooling too much.

If not then to be having brake cooling issues after 5 laps is a fairly big problem.
 
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

They did have the blown exhaust thing but Schueys radio message warned him about the front brakes overheating which would be unaffected by the exhaust heat.

Loving how angry Alonso is, LH cheated and was punished (though I admit it was late, no later than Rosberg at Singapore though or I think Webber at Hungary; off the top of my head so unsure if remembering correctly) but it is a bit rich for him to complain about races being manipulated after the Piquet incident.

Not a great race, hope the new Silverstone will be better.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

One other point regarding the safety car.

Why was it deployed at such a time as to allow Vettel to get past but the rest of the grid to be stuck behind it?

That effectively handed Vettel a 1 lap advantage.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Excellent point Bro. I hadn't thought of that. It sounds perfectly reasonable. If that is the case, the test ban continues to cause problems, becasue that is surely something that would have been discovered with proper testing and wind tunnel time.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

BlackCountryBob said:
They did have the blown exhaust thing but Schueys radio message warned him about the front brakes overheating which would be unaffected by the exhaust heat.
Thanks for the clarification.
For front brakes to be overheating after 5 laps is very odd.

LH cheated and was punished (though I admit it was late, no later than Rosberg at Singapore though or I think Webber at Hungary
I'm not sure it was blatant cheating.
I think it was more a case of he hesitated and was half a car's length behind at the second safety car line so with margins like that he could have made the call either way in my opinion.

This video at 5:25 shows just how close it was: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8766004.stm

As for the 9 drivers who exceeded the delta speed.
Was that deliberate on the part of all 9 or a problem with the timing?
We shall find out soon I expect.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Most importantly, thank God that Webber wasn't killed (or even injured) in that lethal-looking wreck. That says a lot about the strength of the modern F1 car.
 
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Cheat was a poor choice of words on my part rather than an accusation. To me, I think it is precisely that type of human uncertainty and unpredictability that makes F1 worth watching. Perhaps violated the rules is a better choice.

What is the rule in that position, should LH have gone full speed as normal or was it right for him to slow from the start finish line. Excellent point about Vettel too; I can see the pitlane closed rule being reintroduced and we all know that was an awful rule.

And yes, thank god Webber was ok, that was more visceral looking than the one at Indy500 a few weeks ago.

EDIT: BBC ticker says Buemi cleared by stewards, other rulings awaited; shame the F1 forum was cancelled.
 

Boyle

Race Winner
Contributor
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

siffert_fan said:
Most importantly, thank God that Webber wasn't killed (or even injured) in that lethal-looking wreck. That says a lot about the strength of the modern F1 car.
Indeed. If there was one positive thing about the Mosley era then it is the vast improvement in safety technology.

Not the best race but compared to the previous (Valencia) GPs it was good. Those needlesskinks in the track need to be got rid of if Valencia wants to put on a good show.

Loved Alonso's fuming though and to top it off he was mugged by Koby on the penultimate lap!
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Ferrari and Alonso are claiming the FIA manipulated the race.

In a statement issued on its official website, Ferrari said that the decisions made - especially in the way Lewis Hamilton ultimately did not lose a position despite overtaking the safety car – damaged the credibility of the sport.

"A scandal , that's the opinion of so many fans and employees who are all in agreement: there is no other way to describe what happened during the European Grand Prix," said the Ferrari statement.

"The way the race and the incidents during it were managed raise doubts that could see Formula 1 lose some credibility again, as it was seen around the world."

Alonso himself hit out at the FIA after the race, saying the event had been 'manipulated' by the decisions made by the race stewards.

"It's a shame, not for us because this is racing, but for all the fans who came here to watch a manipulated race," Alonso told Spanish television after the event
Oh dear.
I wonder how the FIA will respond?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84854
 

Sakari

Race Winner
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
Ferrari and Alonso are claiming the FIA manipulated the race.

In a statement issued on its official website, Ferrari said that the decisions made - especially in the way Lewis Hamilton ultimately did not lose a position despite overtaking the safety car – damaged the credibility of the sport.

"A scandal , that's the opinion of so many fans and employees who are all in agreement: there is no other way to describe what happened during the European Grand Prix," said the Ferrari statement.

"The way the race and the incidents during it were managed raise doubts that could see Formula 1 lose some credibility again, as it was seen around the world."

Alonso himself hit out at the FIA after the race, saying the event had been 'manipulated' by the decisions made by the race stewards.

"It's a shame, not for us because this is racing, but for all the fans who came here to watch a manipulated race," Alonso told Spanish television after the event
Oh dear.
I wonder how the FIA will respond?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84854
Says a man who won race by worst cheating in the history of F1... go figure.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Whenever there's a Safety Car deployment, the first priority has to be safety, therefore the SC goes out asap, regardless of who happens to be passing the pit exit at the time. The main thing has to be to get the medical crew out to the scene immediately. In this case it worked in Vettel's favour, other times it will go for someone else. That's racing, unfortunately.

As for the delta times, some sort of inquiry may be needed. The SC deployment was very late - Button was on top of the pit entry - and it's easy to understand why the delta was not respected in most cases given the short time to make the decision in.

A five second penalty may be appropriate for the scale of the offence. It will look like the stewards ducking the issue, though, particularly to the tifosi.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Galahad said:
Whenever there's a Safety Car deployment, the first priority has to be safety, therefore the SC goes out asap, regardless of who happens to be passing the pit exit at the time. The main thing has to be to get the medical crew out to the scene immediately. In this case it worked in Vettel's favour, other times it will go for someone else. That's racing, unfortunately.
Thanks G.
That makes perfect sense, I hadn't considered the medical car aspect.
So effectively it's pure luck as to where you now end up when a safety car comes out?
Surely that needs looking into?

A five second penalty may be appropriate for the scale of the offence. It will look like the stewards ducking the issue, though, particularly to the tifosi.
I can imagine that this will infuriate Alonso and Ferrari even more.

A couple of things of note:
When Mark was upside down flying through the air, he collided with an advertising hoarding.
I wonder if this practice will be reviewed?

Will the FIA investigate the bottle throwing?
That was potentially very dangerous.
 

KraXik

Rookie
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

My name is Alonso...

It's called Karma!

Now the saftey car came out a fraction of a second too early for Alonso. The big winners? Vettel, Hamilton, Button, Barrichello, Kobayashi. The losers Alonso and Massa. It's tough luck poor and simple. Just like Singapore, I didn't hear Alonso claiming that was unfair and handing the win to Massa/Hamilton...

Karma!
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I cannot understand the utter bull that Alonso is spouting. Does he know how marginal that was? If Hamilton was affecting the race, then there are better ways to do it!

However, it is especially hard to take when you look at the accusers.
  • The team that until recently had a veto in regulations
  • The team that is throwing its weight around still regarding regulations
  • The team that benefited from the FIA's pursuit of McLaren in 2007 - instigated by them and arguably evidence planted by them
  • The team that benefited from the FIA's grudge against Hamilton in 2008
  • The driver that won a fixed race
  • The driver who has taken both his (top) F1 teams to court

They don't affect races so much as seasons!
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The safety car deployment is absolutely pathetic, it makes no sense whatsoever to have it pick up cars in P3 or P4, letting P1 and P2 through, and allowing P6 or 7 onwards pit thus turning the entire race order on its head! There has got to be a fairer and less Fouled up way of doing this? Dare I say, it is as lousy as disallowing a goal just because you (the referee) didn't happen to see it, when several thousand fans present and many millions watching on tele could see it as plain as day... :bored:
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Re: 2010 European GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

In a statement issued on its official website, Ferrari said that the decisions made - especially in the way Lewis Hamilton ultimately did not lose a position despite overtaking the safety car – damaged the credibility of the sport.
Almost as damaging as running a test session under the guise of "making a publicity film" but then Ferrari are never in the wrong are they?
 
Top Bottom