Head To Head Nico Rosberg vs Lewis Hamilton
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Yes, he beat Lewis fair and square, I just think that if there were a way to quantify a drivers performance, Lewis is an A+ student and Jenson is a B+ student but during 2011, Lewis was having mental issues and could only average a B- for the season. Jenson drives at a B+ level all the time and that year, it was enough to beat his team mate.
Il_leone
World Champion
I thought JB on 2011 was A- because he was the only one who looked like he could beat Vettel more often or not.
As for Rosberg some people suggests he moves teams but he will not get another chance in a top team as good as Mercedes. I think he will likely to replaced by another German driver. I am not sure if the Merc board rate Hulkenberg or they are thinking about Wehrlein.
There are no other teams that will sign him maybe Williams and Mclaren who are not as competitive but it will be pointed out that he was getting beaten consistently by Hamilton in the same team which will hurt his credentials a bit. I see it differently from Rubens Barrichello's situation because he knew when he signed he was going to be No 2 and should have stopped kidding himself after 2002 and wasted 3 more years getting beat
As for Rosberg some people suggests he moves teams but he will not get another chance in a top team as good as Mercedes. I think he will likely to replaced by another German driver. I am not sure if the Merc board rate Hulkenberg or they are thinking about Wehrlein.
There are no other teams that will sign him maybe Williams and Mclaren who are not as competitive but it will be pointed out that he was getting beaten consistently by Hamilton in the same team which will hurt his credentials a bit. I see it differently from Rubens Barrichello's situation because he knew when he signed he was going to be No 2 and should have stopped kidding himself after 2002 and wasted 3 more years getting beat
racecub
Champion Elect
Don't you know all the girls like a bad guy!
So long as max fights fair and accepts a fair fight back from Lewis, on the track, that's fine by me. I don't see Nico as a 'bad' guy. Back stabbing and politicking though, if that starts that's a different story.
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racecub
Champion Elect
I think the reason JB beat Lewis in 2011 is because that's all JB was interested in doing, beating Lewis Hamilton. Lewis on the other hand was still shooting for the championship, in car that wasn't really up to it and as has been mentioned Felipe Massa was out there rear gunning for Alonso. So Lewis stuck his neck out and got it chopped a few times, meanwhile JB cruised and collected.
racecub sorry I think you're mistaking JB's entire driving style for being focused on beating Lewis Hamilton.
Button has always been about making sure he's in the right place at the right time to pick up a result. He won't try to force it if he doesn't have too (although he can if he wants too) he'll try to think round it. Lewis is the other way round in that he'll try to force things to happen for him by doing something spectacular (although he can also do the thinking thing when he wants too). They are both very dynamically opposed drivers who have both had a lot of success the way the y do things. Its probably why their fans are so dynamically opposed.
In 2011 (and for some of 2010 to be fair) JB's style more suited not only the style of racing but also the situation Mclaren were in compared to the teams around them. That and Jenson had an awesone season that year. That race in Japan was probably his best GP ever.
Its not to say one style is better than the other of course. Different strokes for different folks. Lets not do Jenson down though. He is the only driver to beat Lewis Hamilton as a team mate. Whatever may or may not have been his form or mental state at the time (it could be argued that his mental state was effected by the unusual situation of being beaten by his team mate) you have to give JB his respect for what he achieved.
You can also argue that Lewis has learnt a lot of things from his time as JB's team mate that he's taken with him to Merc. We certainly have a far more patient LH now days.
Button has always been about making sure he's in the right place at the right time to pick up a result. He won't try to force it if he doesn't have too (although he can if he wants too) he'll try to think round it. Lewis is the other way round in that he'll try to force things to happen for him by doing something spectacular (although he can also do the thinking thing when he wants too). They are both very dynamically opposed drivers who have both had a lot of success the way the y do things. Its probably why their fans are so dynamically opposed.
In 2011 (and for some of 2010 to be fair) JB's style more suited not only the style of racing but also the situation Mclaren were in compared to the teams around them. That and Jenson had an awesone season that year. That race in Japan was probably his best GP ever.
Its not to say one style is better than the other of course. Different strokes for different folks. Lets not do Jenson down though. He is the only driver to beat Lewis Hamilton as a team mate. Whatever may or may not have been his form or mental state at the time (it could be argued that his mental state was effected by the unusual situation of being beaten by his team mate) you have to give JB his respect for what he achieved.
You can also argue that Lewis has learnt a lot of things from his time as JB's team mate that he's taken with him to Merc. We certainly have a far more patient LH now days.
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racecub
Champion Elect
I realise there are allegiances involved here and we argue our points from that standpoint, and I respect your right to your views. However, with respect, I just don't see it like that. You see, over their time together, Jenson didn't outperform Lewis, when both McLarens finished the race, Lewis was ahead a lot more often than Jenson was. ( lewis had bad luck, car issues much more than JB did, it wasn't only on track incidents) So cruising and collecting is ok up to a point, but it isn't any good if you really need to lock horns with a better driver ( Alonso, Lewis, Vettel) in a championship battle. A cruise and collect driver will bring home the points when the A+ drivers have issues. But in a closely fought championship battle, a team needs a driver with an edge.
I seem to remember something being posted before about this somewhere? Let me just go take a look........
Ah, here it is.....
Head To Head - Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton
( hope you don't mind me using your link no-FIAt-please, but it illustrates my point perfectly)
And take this year for instance. When both McLaren's have finished ( ok that's a rare occurrence
) Alonso has been ahead. The Japanese GP. Alonso is one place out of the points, Button is what? 15th/16th?
But I have to hand it to Button, he can cut the mustard when it comes to making a deal. He's one of life's movers and shakers in that department, how has he managed to get 13mil out of Ron when Ron has Mags and Vandoorne in the wings? Hats off to the guy!
I seem to remember something being posted before about this somewhere? Let me just go take a look........
Ah, here it is.....
Head To Head - Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton
( hope you don't mind me using your link no-FIAt-please, but it illustrates my point perfectly)
And take this year for instance. When both McLaren's have finished ( ok that's a rare occurrence
) Alonso has been ahead. The Japanese GP. Alonso is one place out of the points, Button is what? 15th/16th? But I have to hand it to Button, he can cut the mustard when it comes to making a deal. He's one of life's movers and shakers in that department, how has he managed to get 13mil out of Ron when Ron has Mags and Vandoorne in the wings? Hats off to the guy!
That one was a good one to choose, it shows your point perfectly. Button was 16th. He was 27 seconds behind Alonso.
Since you like to say about drivers having problems not their fault I would just point out that Button lost over 30 seconds at his first pit stop through no fault of his own. That also put him in traffic he should not have been in.
As I said, a good example to choose.
PS If someone wants to put this and the previous post in a more appropriate thread I will not mind.
racecub
Champion Elect
Hi Bill! I looked for you at Monza but I missed you 
It was a great stand to watch the race wasn't it!
Anyway back to the point in hand.
Perhaps it was unfair to choose the Japanese GP, it's just it was fresh in my mind...... But can you think of one race this year where cruising along like Jens has beaten going for it like Alonso? I've tried, but I really can't think of one. Can you think of one?
It was a great stand to watch the race wasn't it! Anyway back to the point in hand.
Perhaps it was unfair to choose the Japanese GP, it's just it was fresh in my mind...... But can you think of one race this year where cruising along like Jens has beaten going for it like Alonso? I've tried, but I really can't think of one. Can you think of one?
I can scarcely recall a race this year when they both finished without a problem for at least one of them. From free practice thre doesn't really seem to be any big difference between the two, although it does seem to be improving on the reliability front. I can't see any more tokens being used this season though.
*cough* Lewis vs Nico Thread? Anyone?
snowy
Champion Elect
Considering there are perhaps only four or five people voicing an opinion that is contrary to yours and four or five others, your reaction is decidedly disrespectful and unhelpful. I don't believe there is anyone here trying to drag Jenson through the mud, they are simply voicing an opinion that differs to yours.
PS: There are rules on this site about trolling.
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Il_leone
World Champion
I am only stating a fact about 2011 now can people live with it or still some stupid idiots on other forums thinking of all sorts of wild conspiracies and discrediting for what people thought JB could not do
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I will say though I don't think Rosberg can repeat what Button did because he's too busy trying to beat Hamilton at his game rather than play to his strengths
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I will say though I don't think Rosberg can repeat what Button did because he's too busy trying to beat Hamilton at his game rather than play to his strengths
F1Brits_90
World Champion
i make no bones about hiding being a lewis fan (& all the british drivers for that matter) but i couldn't help but feel really sorry for nico rosberg because no-one apart from lewis himself what its to be a walkover & title battle won on track ideally goes to wire & not through bad luck/unreliability.
but i heard somewhere that if lewis wins in austin with vettel 3rd then it will be the 1st time that F1 title has been won in the uk on pay tv
but i heard somewhere that if lewis wins in austin with vettel 3rd then it will be the 1st time that F1 title has been won in the uk on pay tv
Il_leone
World Champion
Well anyone got Autosport last week there is an article about Rosberg on beating Hamilton.
Rosberg focused on the race preparation whilst Hamilton upped qualifying which a subtle change is making the difference though Nico has a strong belief that there is a small difference and he can still do it.
There is no doubt he is a very good driver but he has a formidable team mate in Hamilton who is on top of his game and therefore stopping him from being labelled in the same category.
I've heard a lot about how intelligent Nico is with being able to analyse things as a whole and being able to consolidate it together for a perfect weekend whereas Lewis is a bit more instinctive.
Certainly from Williams you hear the engineers say that works well and is able to go through things in detail and Maurice Hamilton who quoted that Rosberg has a bit of Prost in him.
Having said though Williams also think Bottas has a better mental capacity to take in things in a race and deal with it compared to Rosberg. Certainly yesterday Bottas did seem to show that whereas at times Rosberg is always looking over his shoulder too much at Hamilton notably in Hungary.
I dont know if its a sign that Rosberg is operating at full capacity or expending too much time on focusing on beating Hamilton that he let his eye off the ball
Rosberg focused on the race preparation whilst Hamilton upped qualifying which a subtle change is making the difference though Nico has a strong belief that there is a small difference and he can still do it.
There is no doubt he is a very good driver but he has a formidable team mate in Hamilton who is on top of his game and therefore stopping him from being labelled in the same category.
I've heard a lot about how intelligent Nico is with being able to analyse things as a whole and being able to consolidate it together for a perfect weekend whereas Lewis is a bit more instinctive.
Certainly from Williams you hear the engineers say that works well and is able to go through things in detail and Maurice Hamilton who quoted that Rosberg has a bit of Prost in him.
Having said though Williams also think Bottas has a better mental capacity to take in things in a race and deal with it compared to Rosberg. Certainly yesterday Bottas did seem to show that whereas at times Rosberg is always looking over his shoulder too much at Hamilton notably in Hungary.
I dont know if its a sign that Rosberg is operating at full capacity or expending too much time on focusing on beating Hamilton that he let his eye off the ball
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