Jenson Button

Arguably the best ever driver in mixed conditions, all his wins at Mclaren have come in those conditions. His last race win in the dry came at the 2009 Turkish GP.

Button is known for his smooth driving style and is normally seen in must races doing one less stop than his rivals for tyres.

Buttons also know to be a bit of a practical joker and will take part in anything fun.

Since his debut in 2000 Button has won the majority of hearts in this country. But what is your favourite JB win?

Mine has to be Hungaroring 2006, in argubly a midfield team and he won the race in those mixed conditions to take his first win. I can remember James Allen been in tears almost and that was the first race Anthony Davidson ever commentated on.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

It has been stated that the McLaren in colder conditions can get heat into their tyres much better than the rest, especially wet conditions, Hungary this year shows that, as Vettel was agonisingly slow in the first 5 laps, then managed to be on thereabouts pace with the McLaren's, same with the Ferrari drivers.

Button and Hamilton have had just as much as bad wet races compared to good ones.

But a better hit ratio than anyone else as is proven by the points tally. I certainly don't think we can say that the McLaren has had the same characteristics for tyre heat generation for the past three years either. This may be true of the last few races but these cars change and evolve so much in a single season, let alone over three.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Aha, the point is that this changeable conditions thing is down to gambles on tyre choice, driving carefully and not pushing too hard, right place at right time Thats what wins Jenson these races and that is largely a function of experience IMHO.

What exact skill is it that he uses to win these races?

Its not driving fastest, its not by avoiding spinning whilst everyone else does.

I haven't butted in on this yet, but cookin, you are starting to sound a bit desperate and are flogging a dead horse here. Some drivers get worse with experience, some get better. Some score more points in changeable conditions, some score less.

Jenson really has nothing to prove in this area of his driving as he's done it already which makes your relentless attack look pretty ridiculous. You've said all you need to say and those that disagree with you aren't going to change thier minds. Give it a rest, eh.

 

[Slyboogy]

McLaren have had a great car in the wet for the past 4 years, and Ferrari the opposite for 4 years, I don't think it has much to do with the drivers, Massa is capable of pulling of great drives in the wet he just gets ridiculed because of the 5 spins, Raikkonen was always deemed a great wet weather driver, and Alonso has been not too shabby either.

But a better hit ratio than anyone else as is proven by the points tally.

That I can't disagree with.

 

[Quintessentially]

@ Rasputin

If you consider intangibles like experience and strategy as driving skills then so be it. I don’t but notice how you contradict yourself in the sentence below.

expereince or strategy(which aren't driving skills according to you)

I think you need to realise its all very well coming up with a strategy but unless you have the driving skill to actual put the plan in action its about as much use as a chocolate Tea-Pot

So driving skills are needed to implement strategy so why do you argue that they are the same thing?

It is possible for lesser skilled (or outright fast) drivers to combine both to good effect like Jenson does. Again for the nth time I have not denied that he has driving skills and frankly I’m tired of restating that the point is how he measures against his peers in this regard.

I’ve heard about the story of the Torroise (sic) and the Hare but I don’t think having a siesta mid-race is allowed in F1. Over a season, the Hare wins.

 

[Slyboogy]

I’ve heard about the story of the Torroise (sic) and the Hare but I don’t think having a siesta mid-race is allowed in F1. Over a season, the Hare wins.

 

[Quintessentially]

Unless of course your name is James Shunt

 

[The Pits]

Aha, the point is that this changeable conditions thing is down to gambles on tyre choice, driving carefully and not pushing too hard, right place at right time Thats what wins Jenson these races and that is largely a function of experience IMHO. Simply put Jenson has been in these situations many many more times than all the other drivers in good cars. Same as in most professions, the more experienced will be calmer and more effective in chaotic and unpredictable situations

What exact skill is it that he uses to win these races?

Its not driving fastest, its not by avoiding spinning whilst everyone else does.

So completing the race distance fastest is not a driving skill? Are you saying Lewis is not experienced? or Fernando? Where was michael?

The skill is a similar skill to the dry in judging how fast you can go where, braking points, turn in, on the throttle, there are so many things to it, that to simply state it is down to experience is to seriously belittle the skill. If that were the case it would be Rubens, Michael and Button on the podium at every mixed conditions race.

And to arbitrarily define the reasons that Jenson has a good hit rate I find a little insulting, I mean, Alonso, Webber, Rubens, all very experienced drivers, so they should really be stepping on in these conditions?

And Massa is not exactly a spring chicken, and he does not seem to have made waves?

Experience counts for a lot, yes, in all conditions, but to basically state that it is simply due to 200 races (mostly in the dry) would seem to be a bit daft. I mean, does any driver with less than 100 races under their belt turn into a quivering mess?

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

@ Rayintorontocanada.

I'm far to young to remember Clark and all the others from the past. But in my lifetime so far i believe that Jenson Button is the best ever in mixed conditions that i've seen.
If i had the time i'd certainly do research on Clark and the rest but i just don't. But certainly Button in my eyes is the best i've ever seen.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I haven't butted in on this yet, but cookin, you are starting to sound a bit desperate and are flogging a dead horse here. Some drivers get worse with experience, some get better. Some score more points in changeable conditions, some score less.

Jenson really has nothing to prove in this area of his driving as he's done it already which makes your relentless attack look pretty ridiculous. You've said all you need to say and those that disagree with you aren't going to change thier minds. Give it a rest, eh.

But I am not trying to change anyone's mind. Jenson is a good driver, he does well in these conditions, but when peops start busting their arms clapping him on the shoulder and giving him mythical accolades, forgive me for not getting carried away and asking a few simple questions.

So, Mr. Ninja, Apart from being calm, wise and experienced, what exact skill is it that allows Jenson to win in these conditions?

 

[Josh]

His driving and strategic skills?

You can keep claiming it's experience, but with experience comes greater skill (in most cases).
You just have to look at one other driver to know that your argument is wrong: Felipe Massa. He has been in this sport for nearly as long as Button but he's not exactly what you would call a good driver in those conditions, is he?

 

[Grizzly]

But I am not trying to change anyone's mind. Jenson is a good driver, he does well in these conditions, but when peops start busting their arms clapping him on the shoulder and giving him mythical accolades, forgive me for not getting carried away and asking a few simple questions.

So, Mr. Ninja, Apart from being calm, wise and experienced, what exact skill is it that allows Jenson to win in these conditions?

Dude, you've pretty much slammed any and every comment giving the slightest of credit to the guy!

 

[ExtremeNinja]

But I am not trying to change anyone's mind. Jenson is a good driver, he does well in these conditions, but when peops start busting their arms clapping him on the shoulder and giving him mythical accolades, forgive me for not getting carried away and asking a few simple questions.

So, Mr. Ninja, Apart from being calm, wise and experienced, what exact skill is it that allows Jenson to win in these conditions?

A mixture of skill and luck, as with all drivers. Jenson seems to have a bit more of both in these conditions.

If you are not trying to change anyone's mind then why keep on? Surely you have no more to say on the matter than you already have. the only reason you would repeat the same thing in the same place to the same people in different ways is if you were trying to convince them, and hence change their minds.

I'm off to the pub. CYA CTA

 

[Galahad]

Jarno Trulli is the third most experienced driver on the grid now, I think, and in changeable conditions he's diabolically poor. Experience is no use to anyone unless you learn from it, and a proportion of it is instinctive 'feel' and talent. If the McLaren drivers both learn from each other what a formidable team that will be.

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Personally, pre-2009 I couldn't stand the guy although I do and always will support the British drivers. Even up until Brazil '09 I still had reservations but after Brazil the guy gained a lot of respect from me, much in the same way I never particularly liked Hill until Hungary '97. I had even more respect for him for joining McLaren after being shafted by Brawn/Merc in favour of the German has-been. Despite the rubbish about McLaren being 'Hamilton's team' he has taken to being in a top front-running team very well indeed, far better I think than many thought and certainly far better than many give him credit for. He's unlucky that his team-mate is one of if not the fastest guys on the grid, but being beaten by Hamilton is by no means the sign of being a bad driver.
My overall critique of Button is ; very under-rated and I feel if he'd buckled down a bit more in his early F1 career, the top-team drive would have come a lot sooner as he clearly has the talent.

 

[teabagyokel]

Its not driving fastest, its not by avoiding spinning whilst everyone else does.

Take the Brogan Curve at the Clip The Apex International Circuit:

Now would you suggest that you are more likely to go through the corner faster by following the blue line (smoothly clipping the apex and getting the power down on exit) or the gold line (running wide, spinning and rejoining)?

The winner of the Grand Prix is automatically the fastest person to get from the beginning to the end of the required distance. How that happened is an utter irrelevance.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

 

[Galahad]

There's no doubt that he is best in a shower.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

There's no doubt that he is best in a shower.

I thought that he was closer to Bath, being a west country boy and all that.

 

[Road of Bones]

Just back from a week off, and happy to see a thread about JB at last!

After reading through all the arguments, there's one thing that nobody seems to have picked up on - Jenson nearly always brings the car home in a higher position than where he qualified, particularly when he's had a poor quali. He rarely gets into shunts with other drivers, yet is a robust and clinical overtaker. Ok - he may not be as fiery on-track as Lewis or Fernando, but that does not detract in the slightest from his obvious skill as a racing driver - there is more than one way to skin a cat (apparently).

As a confirmed and public lover of Marmite, Jenson has been my favourite driver for many years - he made 2004 exciting for me, for example, and 2009 was Marmicious bliss for me.

I think Ross Brawn said it best at JB's 200th race party:

"The greatest compliment I can pay Jenson is that I wish he was still driving for me".

Says it all for me, does that...

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Now would you suggest that you are more likely to go through the corner faster by following the blue line (smoothly clipping the apex and getting the power down on exit) or the gold line (running wide, spinning and rejoining)?

The winner of the Grand Prix is automatically the fastest person to get from the beginning to the end of the required distance. How that happened is an utter irrelevance.

The winner is the driver to complete the race quickest. Physics 101

A fast driver who is great will usually be fast in all conditions, dry, wet, oily, sandy, gravelly etc

If a driver is not normally the fastest in the wet or the dry, but tends to win (complete the race fastest) when conditions are confused, chaotic, changeable and uncertain, do we attribute this to a skill for driving faster than everyone else or do we attribute this to other qualities such as experience and maturity?

Did Jenson beat Vettel and Hamilton by being a faster driver or by completing the race quickest? Did he complete the race quickest because of other factors apart from sheer pace, such as luck, strategy, caution.

Jenson won not by driving fastest in changeable conditions but by taking advantage of conditions best suited to his strengths, experience (200 races) caution, non aggresive, risk adverse style

Was good for him and was good for the grid.