Which other drivers would have also overtaken Webber?

[Fenderman]

Il_leone


1989 Round 1 – Jacarepagua, Brazil

In the early laps of his home GP, Ayrton Senna crowds Gerhard Berger into retirement, pits for a front wing change and finishes 11th, two laps down. Prost was on a two stop strategy but a dodgy clutch meant that ended up running the whole race on one set of tyres. Despite that he finished 2nd behind Nigel Mansell. A good example of his smooth style and tyre management that lies behind his nick-name, The Professor.


That is a little summary from an E-book on the net that I used for reference to write a post elsewhere. When I can be arsed to do so I'll try and find it again to let you have the reference. Having said that the story is readily available on any number of F1 history websites. It's not a secret.

Edit: Nearly forgot, I've also seen a recording of the incident on Youtube. If I can be arsed to do so I might look for that as well. Bearing in mind that I have shed loads to do you might be better off hunting it down yourself as I might take a while. Sorry about that.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Slyboogy Quintessentially

Schumacher only came back after the debacle of the "Spare tyre" missing in Nurburgring and Luca rang Schumacher asking about a comeback and his daughter said he was in the garden playing football that forced Schumi to return


Schumacher was not really accomodating the next race and did not really hussle or harry Hakkinen for the win when Irvine was back in 3rd

I'm not quite sure what that has to do with the price of eggs on the Moon but still...

 

[Il_leone]

Fenderman

Now you remind me when Berger was still an aggressive charger.. neither gave an inch I remember .before BErger joined Mclaren

I think that was the only time as Berger pretty much could not live with Senna when they were teammates

 

[FB]

Berger pretty much could not live with Senna when they were teammates

Team mates have to live together? That could explain why there is so many problems then, it's all to do with who has which shelf in the fridge and because someone else has eaten your jammy dodgers.

 

[F1ang-o]

And...who leaves the toilet seat up.

 

[EvilWhippet]

Turkey, Jenson was not told to hold station, he was told to save fuel a lot earlier in the race and had enough to get to the end at the speed he was, then Lewis was told to save fuel, Jenson had a go, then the team told him to hold station and he did

From memory Lewis asked over the radio if Jenson would pass him if he slowed down. He was assured Jenson would not, Jenson then went and did that.
If that's infact hugely inaccurate then my excuse is that it was nearly three years ago.

Japan, Lewis was far too slow, Jenson had a chance to get a podium.

He was no where near the podium. Get your facts straight before you rubbish a poster.

EvilWhippet - Please get the facts straight if you are going to try to rubbish a driver.

I'm not rubbishing a driver, don't be so over sensitive. I'm providing reasons behind voting for Button, something so ludicrous at least eight other people apparently agreed.

Over the past few years I could think of two occasions in which Button had reasons not to overtake his teammate but did, and this thread is asking which drivers would go against orders and overtake their teammate. If we're not allowed to reference the actions of a driver to support an opinion of them then what the hell are we doing on an F1 forum?

 

[F1ang-o]

That's why I was so hoping last Sunday...that Mark would take back the lead as Lewis did....RBR would have looked real heads if they had run out of fuel/taken each other out fighting ....

Jenson said in a post race interview..."I could maybe have got past the Mercs...fighting amongst themselves..
..
I hate team orders but Merc have said they were on a knife edge with the fuel both cars... they obviously were banking on rain/safety car ..etc.

And...going back to Japan ...when LH had a good lead over Jenson ..then had a mechanical problem..he slowed down & when JB caught up with him...he let him straight past to fight the leaders...but did he? No...did he hell...He just pocketed the extra points.& smiled....

 

[Jos the Boss]

JB was 13 seconds off the lead while Lewis was 40 seconds off, it was probably for the best!

 

[Slyboogy]

From memory Lewis asked over the radio if Jenson would pass him if he slowed down. He was assured Jenson would not, Jenson then went and did that.
If that's infact hugely inaccurate then my excuse is that it was nearly three years ago.

That's interesting, that's very similar to what happened with Vettel and Webber, only thing is, Button didn't win as Hamilton got passed, while Webber didn't.

Guess the Red Bull incident in Turkey overshadowed this, and the fact that McLaren somehow handled it better.

 

[F1ang-o]

Jos the Boss
I agree of course it was the best thing for the team that the JB in the car able to challenge the leaders..was let through, but there was no challenge...just more points for Jenson., LH came in behind him.

I don't want Fenderman to have another de ja vu......
This is a poll for 2013...innit

 

[RasputinLives]

I'm just 7 laps in to catching up with GP2 and I'm already thinking James Caledo in answer to the thread question. Only he'd have smashed Webber unto the pit wall whilst he did it.

The boy looks like he'd step on his own Grandma for a place.

 

[RickD]

From memory Lewis asked over the radio if Jenson would pass him if he slowed down. He was assured Jenson would not, Jenson then went and did that.
If that's infact hugely inaccurate then my excuse is that it was nearly three years ago.

He was not assured of anything, so I will take your excuse, he was told Jenson was saving fuel too, just that Jenson seemed to be doing it and had good pace, a lesson maybe Lewis needs to learn.

He was no where near the podium. Get your facts straight before you rubbish a poster.

So, half a second is nowhere near... OK..

I'm not rubbishing a driver, don't be so over sensitive. I'm providing reasons behind voting for Button, something so ludicrous at least eight other people apparently agreed.

Over the past few years I could think of two occasions in which Button had reasons not to overtake his teammate but did, and this thread is asking which drivers would go against orders and overtake their teammate. If we're not allowed to reference the actions of a driver to support an opinion of them then what the hell are we doing on an F1 forum?

Not being over sensitive, I am just doing the same as others on this forum and jumping on things that are not factual.

What was the other occasion, as I can only count Turkey and Lewis doesn't seem to be able to keep a good pace and save fuel like a few other drivers, as I said, maybe it is a lesson he needs to learn..

 

[Fenderman]

Lewis Hamilton can't save fuel and run at a decent lap time.

Hmm, I am reminded that one should never let the truth get in the way of a good myth. Maybe I should refrain from perpetuating that one. I wouldn't want to be thought of as a comp........

 

[EvilWhippet]

Rick, from a quick googling Button finished the Japanese grand prix more than ten seconds away from the podium. The top three were all very close. I just personally think, given the championship standings at the time he had nothing to gain from going past Hamilton other than being able to say he'd beaten his teammate. <-------- ***AN OPINION***

Turkey
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/160422/1/mclaren_told_hamilton_in_turkey_that_button_wouldnt_pass.html

Lewis Hamilton: "Jenson is closing in on me...if I back off is Jenson going to pass me or not?"

McLaren-Mercedes: "No, Lewis, no."

So Lewis can't go fast while saving fuel, just save enough to retake first from Button and pull out a gap and win.

I've already told you both the occasions in which I thought Button was slightly selfish - didn't realise that's considered sacrilege. Forgive me father for I have sinned. JB, his initials so close to that of Christ, JC, has only ever driven for love and never for himself.
Amen.

 

[The Artist.....]

He was not assured of anything, so I will take your excuse, he was told Jenson was saving fuel too, just that Jenson seemed to be doing it and had good pace, a lesson maybe Lewis needs to learn.

Although most reports suggest that in fact JB wasn't in fuel save mode when he overtook LH, as he hadn't heard/been told that instruction at that point. It is not possible to go very quickly at the same time as saving fuel; if it were that easy, then all the teams would just put less fuel in!

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Jenson said it himself. He said they were both told to slow down and save fuel but that he was surprised at how much Lewis had slowed down. Lewis probably slowed down because there was no threat behind Button and that Button, his teammate, was not supposed to be a threat.

[Edit] Searching for the source but I remember it from the time. It's out there somewhere.

 

[The Pits]

I believe that part of being in fuel save is being given a target lap time.

Interesting points to note regarding this particular incident, firstly Lewis was told that Jenson would not pass, however, a similar instruction had not been given to JB, the save fuel and target lap times he was give, he was sticking to, and he came across a slow moving McLaren, and tried to pass. He had a go, he got re-taken, he was told fuel critical, end of story.

Interesting aside, Lewis was told that Jenson would not overtake, at a time when team orders were not allowed, could it be Jenson was told that he had to try and overtake in order to make it look like team orders were not being applied!!!

 

[F1ang-o]

Turkey 2010

Well the faces on the podium...said it all...Lewis looked WTF is going on........

And if JB had baa baa..d....it would have matched his demeanour....and he said one thing... & then changed his story....

 

[ExtremeNinja]

baa baa..d?

Like a black sheep? Eh?

 

[The Pits]

baa baa d?

I do not recall a change of story, or JB wearing a sheep costume on the podium. I do recall Lewis looking rather sullen, which I can understand.

I guess this is one of those situations which depends upon your opinion of a driver as to how you interpret things.

Oh well.